Ceres Power Share Discussion Threads

[angus17] 16/5/2018 08:22

Good point Cerrito

[cerrito] 16/5/2018 08:09

To me really good that the announcement was signed off by the Chairman and Ceo of this US10b marcap company which to me illustrates how important they take it

[tdog1975] 16/5/2018 08:00

Bingo- great news

[mr roper] 16/5/2018 07:40

Superb news indeed!

[folderboy] 16/5/2018 07:33

Seems almost too good to be true . . . busy holding my breath!

[angus17] 16/5/2018 07:09

Well this is interesting. Figured there might be a strategic investor but didn't think of a Chinese move.

Excellent news

[ben chod] 26/4/2018 09:38

whereis the news we were promised

[tdog1975] 24/4/2018 15:14

News coming

[pr4w2b0y] 17/4/2018 18:02

If anyone interested in the points MS raised re wider market there was a good article in Economist (a while back) 'the death of the internal combustion engine' some good facts & figures quoted and references, correlation to air quality and health. I see CWR as self proclaimed in that attitudes are changing and there is a political will for FC tech to materialise.

Also if like most people who think that UK power grid can't cope with an influx of EVs + plus strain on weather fluctuations check out the gridwatch link post.

hxxps://www.fool.com/investing/2018/05/29/the-rise-of-the-electric-or-hydrogen-fuel-cell-sem.aspx

[scrutable] 10/4/2018 17:52

The IP is being built up relentlessly, all the time, and IMO the share price now understates its value. During the last five trading days, the share price has displayed recovery momentum totaling 24% .One would expect the share price chart to see the share price rebound to 16p. Hopefully this time it will breakout.

At CWR, news of progress is always being held back out of respect for NDAs - even when some of it is in the public domain through the actions of the project partner. British Gas as an active member of the ene.field initiative frequently refers to trials of CHP units in the UK but there is not a word on the subject from CWR. It i easy to imagine that BG is the fifth unnamed partner and will soon announce commrcialisation of a CHP unit heated by a CWR Steel Cell. This could be Vaillant, Worcester,Bosch, Baxi or ,Elcore who have all had demo units installed domestically in Europe.

I also wonder what happened to CWR's cooperation agreement with Korea's largest boiler maker, KD Navien signed up as a developmentpartner in 2013. Is it still active? Is the projects stalled?

hxxp://www.fuelcelltoday.com/news-archive/2013/july/ceres-power-partners-with-south-korea%E2%80%99s-largest-boiler-manufacturer-for-domestic-fuel-cell-product

The company is unnecessarily stingy with information. CWR appeared at the Fuel Cell exhibition in Japan, They must have been well received there because oftheir technical achievement underscored by the follow on agreement with Nissan, and the original one with Honda. Yet not one word has been reported on their experience there

[angus17] 07/4/2018 07:11

Hi Scrutable

I reckon the recent drop was managed to enable a strategic investor to get in at a certain price. Hopefully all will be revealed soon.

Also invested in afc but think cwr will reach commercialism first. Not far off I reckon.

[scrutable] 06/4/2018 14:20

Although the company is unusually secure with its respect of share value enhancing news of development, careful reading and rereading of the recent H1 financial report reveals much to be excited by, and seems to be confirmed in the last few days by a slightly accelerating rebound of the SP, from the recent low point.

CWR recently disclosed that it has hit its target of securing "a major European manufacturer" as its fifth development partner, at the same time signing up, ie adding "two new significant OEMs" at Technology Assessment Agreement stage" to "a strong pipeline".

The results from around one year trials of the 1KW unit for hot water, heating and power generation in private homes show that ""fuel cells could be a key enabler for localised grid reinforcement to support the roll out of electric vehicles.

Combining this news with the revelation that major milestones have been achieved in the range extender programme for Nissan, and that a follow on agreement has been signed, opens up the prospect of the Steel Cell in its new 5KW format becoming a dominating propulsion unit for EVs generally. The whole of the automotive engineering industry has been interrupted in its flight from the internal combustion engine by the inadequacies of battery technology, and by the under-powered unsuitability of a 1KW cell for cars let alone lorries . CWR's 5KW Steel Cell could be the main escape route.

This 5KW cell tested and proven, and now being supplied to CWR's partners, is a massive engineering break through for stationary as well as automotive power. I expect signs of this to become visible during H2 when revenues for the second half year should have much more than doubled Y on Y to a 2018 exit rate of £10-12m p/a.

After a 14 year slog, a false start and radical change of business plan, maturing and proving of a resolute young management against heavy odds, and a large accumulation of development costs the outlook for this company inspires confidence and is now extremely bright.

[smokey 1o3] 29/3/2018 15:31

Po
End of.
I will let others be the judge.
have a good Easter.

[pierre oreilly] 29/3/2018 10:46

Smokey, I don't think afn has moderators, that's one of its attractions imv.I can't see why you should say that when, clearly, your sarcastic response is more of a call for me to refrain from posting compared to my considered and polite response to your post.Perhaps afn do have a moderator, is it you?

[re1dy] 29/3/2018 10:32

ICE is at best 35% efficient and increasing efficiency seems to increase the combustion temperature worsening issues with NOx pollution. SOFC Fuel cells tend to be lower temperature ~650c where NOx formation is much less and the CWR fuel cell is ~55% efficient if I recall correctly

My bet would be as datacentre standby power or Auxiliary Power Units (such as the one on top of every refrigerated trailer) as the first commercial applications for the CWR stack

[smokey 1o3] 29/3/2018 10:18

PO

YOu said "It was to counter the post by someone saying hydrogen fcs were a no brainer or the like (i.e. putting itm in good light - a hydrogen producer and hydrgen dispensing machine manufacturer iirc). I post when people ramp other comapnies on this board".

A bit overboard old chap. I have no investment in ITM but thought members here might be interested in particular to hear about the Hydrogen Police Cars etc.

However, I take your point that I have been a naughty boy and I promise I won't be doing this again.

BTW are you the moderator?

[colsmith] 29/3/2018 09:22

DEL - a combustion engine can be modified to run directly on Hydrogen; this was demonstrated twenty years ago or so in a BBC TV piece - I recall the presenter taking water out of the exhaust and sipping it. Copper - a combustion car uses massively less of the stuff than the 'large' electric motor of an EV car; OK a Fuel cell wouldn't be needed in this situation - I stand corrected.

[pierre oreilly] 28/3/2018 22:38

delboy, the problems i itemised were for hydrogen fuel cells such as itm need and as are currently working in the mirai. It was to counter the post by someone saying hydrogen fcs were a no brainer or the like (i.e. putting itm in good light - a hydrogen producer and hydrgen dispensing machine manufacturer iirc). I post when people ramp other comapnies on this board.

Most here, i think, realise cwr's sofc, as is likely to find itself as a range extender in one of nissan's ev vans shortly, is largely fuel independent and therefore has a readily avaiable infrastructure, because it can get its hydrogen by on board reforming which i think occurs naturally with sofcs. As you say, it doesn't need a new hydrogen infrastructure or onboard hydrogen storage.

That is one area of cwr expertise - it has jvs with other companies working in completely different application areas where its inexpensive steel cell sofcs can be deployed.

[pugugly] 28/3/2018 21:22

delboydec17: From memory you are pretty much spot on but also from memeory again the Ceres fuel cells are/were targeted more at the heavy duty market than the domestic car market. If I am wrong I am sure some of the longer term members of the board will point out my mistakes.

[delboydec17] 28/3/2018 20:32

Hi Guys, this is my first ever post so please be gentle!

I'm an engineer by trade but by no means an expert in FC or EV technology but from my understanding I have the following comments:

COLSMITH - Fuel cells are designed to generate electricity from a chemical reaction to supply an electric motor or for range extending purposes to charge the batteries. As such the FC replaces the combustion engine and does not work with it. If there is a global shortage of copper or other materials needed for electric motors then a FC would be useless.

Pierre O - I think the advantage of Ceres's solution is the steel cells are fuel flexible and do not have to be supplied with Hydrogen. I believe they are capable of using natural gas or biofuels, if this includes LPG, we already have service stations with LPG pumps so it might not be such a big problem for people to adopt a FC / EV vehicle. Being the best fuel for the environment if Hydrogen production is not a problem and the other issues around it can be easily resolved I assume any FC vehicles that had been running on LPG or similar could be switched to Hydrogen with hopefully minor modifications.

Anyway as I said I'm not an expert so please let me know if anything I've offered up is wrong!

[pierre oreilly] 28/3/2018 10:49

Clearly?

cwr is working on ev range extenders - that is tried and tested low risk tech - it's clear to me that extended range evs are coming in the foreseeable future, but nowhere near in the number most envisage, with conventional hybrids taking a much bigger market share.

There are big roblems to overcome with fc cars en masse - efficiency of the hydrogen production, transfer and storage in a vehicle, infrastructure to name a few. The Mirai is testing the market and tech, almost certainly a big loss leader, but it's silly to assume the future is fc is 'clear', it's anything but.

[colsmith] 28/3/2018 09:45

Interesting stuff Smokey thanks. Clearly the long term for transport is fuel cell based- cars lighter than battery versions and have mostly much greater range. Also if copper becomes a problem in supply due to demand (motors need load of copper) and rare earths for the necessary magnetic performance of electric motors are supply limited then a combustion car can use hydrogen with a fuel ceil; so whatever way its looked at fuels cells have a great future in transport at least. Only question is when it will all take off - suppose CWR look like a great investment but may need a lot of patience!

[robbiekeane] 28/3/2018 07:55

Thanks Cerrito - it bumped up sharply at the beginning of the year off the back of a Daily Mail "shares to watch in 2019" tip.

[cerrito] 27/3/2018 21:14

Been much delayed in really having a look at these to see what caused the price weakness.
Inevitably on the technology pretty much a repeat of the March 1 RNS as far as I can make out.
On their financials noted that R&D was £5.9m in the half-the highest ever half year expenditure and cash burn at £4m was lower than the normal £10m pa over recent years-and increased revenue explains that.
I was expecting more concrete news on the manufacturing site but I guess they think this is pretty easy given that they have already ordered equipment. I wonder if they need an especially big electricity supply like ITM. The £4m of capex for the first stage compares to the £1mpa capex spend over the recent years.
I note the following
Quote
Completed technology transfer with confidential customer to develop a multi-kW CHP product;
Unquote
I cannot remember them talking about doing technology transfers before: they have always talked in terms of partners.
I saw the areas where they expect to announce progress in the next year-which I take to be March 2019- and I was surprised to see no reference to the modular 10kW power-only system for Cummins/USDOE referenced on March 1. Should I have been? Is this a reason for the price weakness?
I would be surprised if people are spooked by their discussion on an equity raise as to me at least it has always been on the cards that they will need funding Q1 calendar 2019 at the very latest and indeed in my summary of the AGM I mused about am equity raise this summer.
Anyway not sure why the price has fallen-though to be honest found it difficult to explain why it went up so much in the New Year.