Cattles Share Discussion Threads

[rfinance] 02/6/2010 21:06

grahamburn - Why can you not believe it? Please - "an excellent deal" are you crazy?

[spectoacc] 02/6/2010 21:06

@grahamburn - thanks for the comment, have frequently felt I'm banging my head against a brick wall on here!

The likes of Badhshah & RFinance simply do not understand that a co with a £1bn shareholder deficit is not going to trade out of trouble, with the banks unwilling to lend because the seemingly profitable business that was Cattles turned out to be a charade.

The accusation of "representing management" is amusing; I've endlessly railed against the failure to allow the tax losses to be taken. But hats off to them for coming up with this small return - as I said, even a D4E would unlikely have returned as much. I've got egg on my face for always saying there was no chance of getting anything back.

[grahamburn] 02/6/2010 20:28

Cannot believe some of the comments today. SpectoAcc is exactly right. 1p (or thereabouts) in your pocket this year will give SOME cash return AND enable the establishment of a tax loss in the current year. That is an excellent deal, considering the state of the company. It cannot trade its way out of its impasse in less than 5 to 10 years as things stand to enable it to give any meaningful return to equity holders, but in all probability the company would simply be wound up as a legal entity and passed to to its creditors (who would still lose a fortune) way way before that.

Why on earth anyone would share Badhshah's view (just for vengence against the ex directors), I cannot fathom. Investing isn't about emotion: it's about hard cash - and the most tax efficient outcome for a failed investment.

[rfinance] 02/6/2010 18:39

SpectoAcc, you may have an honest opinion in which case fine you just disagree with mine. However, it seems sometimes that you point of view is so entangled with that of the management that one could be forgiven in thinking that you represent them.

Whatever you may think I suggest that most people are pyssed enough to be bloody minded if and when they can. I agree with Badhshah's point of view.

The company may be overly in debt at the moment but who is to say that it will always be the case. Margaret Young said the same in her statement (although maybe she thought she didn't) - that it could be taken over by a charity (or some such body) - she did not say that if she thought the company was irretrievably lost!!

[spectoacc] 02/6/2010 16:22

The value is in the tax loss; getting say 0.9p/share back is about where a D4E would have been, so is clearly a result. Not one single shareholder will be in profit there: but realising the tax loss now rather than an indeterminate number of years away is the real benefit.

You need to realise that shareholders own a co "worth" minus one billion pounds - not something it can ever trade it's way out of. Note that the RNS today says that if the bid succeeds, the creditors (who rank ahead of shareholders remember) will be taking a massive hit.

[badhshah] 02/6/2010 16:14

I think shareholders will prefer to lose all than getting this much money back.

[spectoacc] 02/6/2010 16:02

Then shareholders will get zero, simple as. Though I'd like to see more details of the charitable trust.

[badhshah] 02/6/2010 15:56

This deal won't go through, shareholders are not happy

[subh4n] 02/6/2010 15:20

how much r the cmpny will pay to shareholder ?

[spectoacc] 02/6/2010 14:16

No indication it'll relist first (it won't IMO), nor that the "bid" will go through, but sounds to me like someone's offered £5m for an easy arrangement (would be about 0.9p). That's a fantastic outcome for shareholders; co is worth minus a billion quid, yet someone's giving £5m for it (in the same way they gave £100k to Jessops's shareholders).

Main value is in realising the tax loss, but all the same - getting anything back, particularly something probably equivalent to what a D4E would have returned, is a result.

[alistair4444] 02/6/2010 13:06

Always thought this one would come back.

[deanforester] 02/6/2010 10:56

So, a possible 1p per share. Perhaps, maybe.

[spectoacc] 02/6/2010 10:08

Amazing, who'd offer even less than a penny when the shareholder deficit is so high? Great outcome for shareholders though - something back, but more importantly, the tax loss now rather than indeterminate number of years away.

[grahamburn] 02/6/2010 10:07

Interesting RNS just out - real money back? OK not much, but better than nothing!

[killieboy] 19/5/2010 19:54

Read todays IMS if you want a good cry!!

[cpl593h] 17/5/2010 19:18

And yet, even now - even after all we've had painfully displayed to us since 2007 in this ongoing crisis, the majority people on advfn threads are still utilising company statements & reports alongside those of other connected parties, in order to make investment decisions.

Ah well, it's their money - I'll stick to following price.

[killieboy] 12/5/2010 18:07

Well there's a surprise.............................!!

[redd] 12/5/2010 17:22

..and report in The Times...................



Goes to show that if an apparently good share keeps tanking then no matter what the Directors say do not touch with a barge pole! There are always plenty more fish in this sea.

[orchestralis] 12/5/2010 11:26

2008 results out to day.

[rfinance] 13/4/2010 16:50

killieboy - Thank you for your insightful comments but I thought you had established this five groans and ten sighs ago. Nothing like drumming it home to us poor hapless souls... ho, ho!

[killieboy] 13/4/2010 16:32

About time we drew a line under this one - SHAREHOLDERS WILL GET NOTHING BACK. We are at the bottom of the pile. THE END

[rfinance] 13/4/2010 15:32

SpectoAcc - Thanks for you comments.

[spectoacc] 13/4/2010 10:00

Rfinance - you're still putting an "almost" in there.

There'll most probably still be a viable business (or two) left over in the Cattles group - but understand that it definitely won't belong to shareholders. Shareholders rank below creditors. Creditors can't possibly be paid in full. They'll therefore have first lien over any remaining assets in the group.