Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Catco Reins. LSE:CAT London Ordinary Share BMG1961Q2095 ORD USD0.00013716 (DI)
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  +$0.00 +0.00% $0.5225 $0.515 $0.53 $0.5225 $0.5225 $0.5225 1,169,181 06:30:28
Industry Sector Turnover (m) Profit (m) EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap (m)
Equity Investment Instruments 0.0 -8.2 0.0 - 204.65

Catco Reins. Share Discussion Threads

Showing 1251 to 1275 of 1275 messages
Chat Pages: 51  50  49  48  47  46  45  44  43  42  41  40  Older
DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
16/5/2018
08:06
@ Spec - 27% ought to be enough: maybe shows the suspicion surrounding this fund!
jonwig
16/5/2018
07:27
Certainly anyone selling out in first half of 2017 would have done well - out at a price higher than bought at, plus c.75p of capital returns along the way. Reinsurance still feels like a "picking up pennies in front of a bulldozer" strategy tho, albeit that the new CATC ("let's start again") will be benefitting from the better rates - caused indirectly by CAT's huge losses! NAVs much as expected today - the discount on CAT that got me in remains only as long as no more huge loss reserve provisions.
spectoacc
15/5/2018
19:33
@ topvest - if you add back the dividends and at least two returns of capital, tsr up to August last year was pretty good. I don't want to make excuses for their over-exposure to Harvey, etc. which they ought to have hedged against.
jonwig
15/5/2018
18:13
It’s not performed well at all. There’s no point having an attractive yield if they can’t preserve your capital.
topvest
15/5/2018
16:46
Thanks for the insight on the sector - so effectively CAT is the reinsurer to the reinsurers. I agree that CAT had done very well until last year, although I wonder how much that was down to the very benign environment rather than any real skill. It seems rates have improved a bit which should at least help future returns.
riverman77
15/5/2018
15:01
@jonwig - I did notice CAT declaring how investors had had 75% of their money back already in divis up to now. But the corollary of that is that at the now 50c share price, a buyer of CAT at issue has made all of 25% non-compounded if they sold out now! So actually pretty poor, and even worse if they'd reinvested the divis as scrip. One other thing I noticed - before the latest CAT write-down, they'd said 35% was being reinvested into the new C shares. I'm guessing much of that is now off the table?
spectoacc
15/5/2018
13:47
@ riverman - I think the point is that insurers lay off their excess to re-insurers, and then re-insurers do the same with the likes of CAT! So CAT ultimately protected the companies you mention. In fact, CAT produced excellent returns (dividend, return of capital) over its first seven years (end of 2010). The whole point of the company is to risk single big events against steady outsize returns. However, this has failed because lack of cat events up to 2017 meant that non-specialists (pension funds, hedge funds) thought the returns were a free lunch and bid up the prices of cat-bonds and similar products, thus depressing returns. Actually, holders here had a chance to exit. Look at the share price in Aug-Sept. A cautious investor could have gotten clear by reading the hurricane season newsfeed. FWIW I sold at 112.3c on 20/09 and bought CATC at 102c on 22/12. So I was a bit slow to react, and will be sharper next time. (False sell signals could come, though!)
jonwig
15/5/2018
13:20
I am not an expert on the sector but losses seem pretty awful compared with the listed reinsurers, eg Lancashire took a more cautious approach and refused to chase risk last year given the unattractive pricing and losses were quite modest last year. Beazley and Hiscox also did very well although also operate in other parts of the market. However I have little in confidence in CATs approach to risk or ability to provide guidance on potential losses and will avoid this name altogether (and that includes the C shares).
riverman77
15/5/2018
12:51
Have to agree - chump change. On the other hand - would they buy at all if they thought more big write-downs coming? I suspect there's more, but smaller. At which point the directors buy again, only larger :)
spectoacc
15/5/2018
12:46
The level of director buying looks pathetically low.
hugepants
14/5/2018
14:04
Aye, but they're not at a discount and who's to say they won't suffer the same as CAT as soon as the wind blows... ;)
spectoacc
14/5/2018
14:00
@ Spec - the C shares ought to be safer - no legacy windstorm issues.
jonwig
14/5/2018
13:23
Been watching these & finally punted a few but got to say the continued additional write-downs don't inspire confidence - and with the size of them, I doubt it's the end. Surely they should have kitchen-sinked to start with. Some (pretty small) d buys given me sufficient confidence, but not in in much size yet.
spectoacc
10/5/2018
06:32
@ topvest - perhaps percentages of different things? One is 8% of the whole portfolio, the other is an increase of 15% above what it was earlier assumed to be. I don't really know ... though I should, if I'm an investor! (Anyway, I'll collect the dividends here until something nasty happens, and hope there's enough prior warning.)
jonwig
09/5/2018
21:24
How does that work then given the exposure increased by 15% or so largely on one event?
topvest
09/5/2018
18:48
This probably helps a bit, as they can only pay out a finite amount for any one event 'The maximum capital exposed to a worst-case single event is limited to 8% for the 2018 portfolio, compared to 10% for the 2017 portfolio,' the reinsurer said.
return_of_the_apeman
09/5/2018
09:27
@ erstwhile2 - agree it's complex, and I can't do more than quote from the March 2018 factsheet: The Manager believes that the total loss reserves established for the 2017 loss events are sufficient to provide for all cedant claims with respect to these loss events, based on the information currently available. However, there is still some level of industry uncertainty with regards to the final insured loss impact of the 2017 loss events. I'd have thought they would have hedging above certain loss levels, but I can't find evidence for that.
jonwig
09/5/2018
09:00
Not sure how this works but if their loss reserves materialise, so their adjusted NAV of around $0.68 is "correct", aren't they now under capitalised on the reinsurance pool they have written when their capital was a larger amount. Like person A having £100 equity and writing put options of £100 max loss on 2 stocks to persons B and C, and the first is now down 50%. The owner of the second put option (C) sees that A doesnt have enough capital to pay him off if the stock falls > 50% How does the collateral side of things work, can CAT be forced into a windup spiral
erstwhile2
09/5/2018
06:54
I'm surprised at their lack of re-re-re-insurance against further write-downs! Switching to theC shares has been a good move, but another bad season will see these hurt as well. At least with Atlantic windstorms you can see them coming!
jonwig
08/5/2018
22:28
yes, it certainly demonstrates that it is not correlated with the market!!
jimcar
08/5/2018
21:20
Well, this has been a bit of a disaster. Nice income. Capital at risk!
topvest
27/2/2018
06:47
Analysis and outlook: Http://citywire.co.uk/investment-trust-insider/news/james-carthew-don-t-bet-the-house-on-reinsurance-casino/a1096014?ref=investment-trust-insider-latest-news-list
jonwig
02/2/2018
07:07
@ Don - it's in the header: 31 Jan announcement.
jonwig
30/1/2018
10:13
Where's the divi rns? I'm getting nervous! I've hung on to my holding as they have a clear divi policy... 5%plus LIBOR. In time, my view is the NAV will recover... but without a divi I would be an unhappy seller.
don julian
28/1/2018
12:11
Gilston - their portfolio update (see header) ended: Further, the catastrophic loss events of 2017 has led to higher pricing, generating a net no loss return of c. 23% for the 2018 portfolio versus 16% for the 2017 portfolio. Also, risk levels have been reduced in the 2018 portfolio. During the autumn of 2017, the Manager raised over USD 2.5 billion between its public and private funds. These new funds have now been fully deployed for 2018. And, from the Citywire article: ... an investor in the major fundraising in May 2011 would still have generated positive returns of 45%, or 6% per annum ... Maybe 23% is still insufficient compensation, but it's possible 2017 was a standalone event, since nothing remotely comparable has happened since 2006.
jonwig
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