Carter & Carter Share Discussion Threads

[thecroots] 01/2/2008 17:55

R u insane,

no i am in wexham park a&e right now with a head wound. Honest

pugg1ey,

yes very confident with MMS. Hold over 400,000 shares in mms. Thats how confident i am. R u in too?

[temporarily insane] 01/2/2008 14:30

thecroots, feeling bitter are we!!!!!!!!

[still waiting] 31/1/2008 21:48

Let's hope so.

[pugg1ey] 31/1/2008 19:39

don't worry croots you'll make a fortune on MMS so 4K will be irrelevent

[thenorth] 31/1/2008 19:29

so what do we think this will open up at???? oh and when?

[thecroots] 31/1/2008 19:20

I own (lost) £4k on this.

When suspension lifted, these will open at £5.



Market Cap that is!!

[still waiting] 31/1/2008 12:52

How the banks have allowed it to go on so long is the real question, must be a few bank managers for the chop when this gets put in the bin.

[smelgy] 31/1/2008 12:43

........and me overzeal. Remember they are still winning government contracts, so all is not lost.

[overzeal] 31/1/2008 07:31

Seen it all before !

Overzeal - 14 Aug'07 - 08:34 - 2 of 457

£100m was the debt at June 2006.
It is nearer £200m now.

IMO PDYOR

[trickyboyfish] 31/1/2008 07:15

Couldnt even afford the maintenance of a helicopter.

[gta5] 30/1/2008 21:07

oohrogerpalmer, I fully agree with your views.

I still think that the company has a minute chance of surviving, but I have my doubts about any value remaining.... as you say, either the shares become worthless or they go bust.
The current Board and Directors will struggle to keep face at the EGM I thing...

I posted this on 3i:

(As a non expert), I come to the following conclusions:

quoting the first line:
"net indebtedness is currently forecast by the Board to peak at £175 million"

Now,
If it was the debt was 129m a few days ago and is expected to grow to 175m in about 6 months it looks to me as they are hemoraging 7.7 millon pounds / month. No indication yet of what's going on. (I.e. if that is the % rate they pay their lenders we can kiss this story goodby right now...)

They offer no explanation to how this will "peak" rather than just keep on accelerating the losses......*if you plot 86, 111, 129 and 175 on a curve you can see where we'll be at this time next year....... ??

After 4 months of suspension they have still not been able to provide us with a clear report on their current financial position (unless we accept a vague debt figure as a financial position of course!, to me that doesn't quite cut it!)

All I can see in todays circular is a request to shareholders to allow further indebtness to be allowed as they have allready reached and crossed the allowed limits.

The one thing that baffles me:
I am struggling to understand what this Resolution is supposed to accomplish?

Say that the shareholders vote yes "to waive the borrowing restriction" on the 15th... then what? are C&C gonna borrow more to pay off other debt? borrow to be able to make a D4E??? Accuire more training companies????

I just cant see the logic here........?

Also.. I cannot understand how the board is still intact after such blatant failure to drive a buisness?

Anyone?

Wishing all SH the best of luck, I think we're gonna need it..

GTA

[oohrogerpalmer] 30/1/2008 20:53

To me it sounds like -

Option 1 -
Please give us your backing , your shares will be worthless if you do but it will enable us to carry on in our jobs getting nice big fat salaries and basically starting a new company afresh.
That way we don't come out of it with any cr*p on our hands.

Option 2 - Don't give us your backing and we go bust and as option 1 your shares will be worthless.

Thank you for your support , you know the managements future well being is far more important than the share price is to you.

[temporarily insane] 30/1/2008 20:19

What you on about?

I hope not youre wife :-)

[charterhouse3] 30/1/2008 19:08

The fat lady is gargling !!!

[gta5] 30/1/2008 17:41

From Carter and Carter:

Posting of Circular
30/01/2008

The Company is today posting a circular to its shareholders convening an extraordinary general meeting ('EGM') of the Company on 15 February 2008, at which a resolution (the 'Resolution') will be proposed to waive the borrowing restriction contained in regulation 90.1 of the Company's articles of association (the 'Articles').


Waiver of the Articles borrowing restriction

As announced on 30 November 2007, the Company has been working with its auditors, PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP, in order to enable the completion of the audit of the results for the year ended 31 July 2007. The work in respect of the audit remains ongoing and conclusion of the audit remains outstanding. However, the directors of the Company ('Directors' or 'Board') believe that, due to the financial performance for the year ended 31 July 2007, it is likely that the finalisation of the audit will result in a substantial write-down of goodwill.

In the same announcement, it was explained that the Company's and its subsidiaries' (the 'Group') indebtedness going forward was likely to be higher than the performance of the business was able to support. The Group's net indebtedness has increased as follows:

31 January 2007 31 July 2007 17 January 2008
Net indebtedness £86m £111m £129m


The Group is forecasting a further increase in net indebtedness over the next few months as additional working capital is required. In the year to 31 July 2008 net indebtedness is currently forecast by the Board to peak at £175 million.

Regulation 90.1 of the Articles provides that the Board shall restrict the borrowings of the Company so as to procure that such borrowings shall not exceed a sum equal to 'three times the adjusted total of capital and reserves', as defined by the Articles. Due to the reasons set out above it is expected that, when the Company finalises its results for the year ended 31 July 2007, the anticipated substantial reduction in goodwill, which will result in a corresponding reduction in capital and reserves, would result in the Company's borrowings being in excess of the limit stipulated by the Articles.

The Articles provide that the limit set may be exceeded if an ordinary resolution is passed by the shareholders of the Company. Therefore, to allow the Company to exceed its borrowing limits, as stipulated by the Articles, and to ensure the Company is able to seek the required further borrowing from its lenders, the Board believes it is necessary to pass the Resolution to authorise the waiver of the borrowing limit in the Articles.


Serious loss of capital

It has come to the Directors' attention that, as a result of the increase in the Company's overall indebtedness and the trading performance since 31 January 2007, the net assets of the Company have fallen to below half the current called up share capital of the Company. In these circumstances, the Directors are required, pursuant to section 142 of the Companies Act 1985, to convene an extraordinary general meeting of the Company to consider whether any, and if so what, steps should be taken to deal with the situation. Accordingly, this matter will also be considered at the EGM.

The Board remains in active discussions with the Company's lenders. If these negotiations are successful, the Board anticipates that the Company will announce full details of a restructuring in February 2008. At this time, a further circular containing full details of the proposed restructuring will be sent to the Company's shareholders in order to seek shareholder approval of such restructuring.


Notice of EGM

For the purposes of considering and, if thought fit, passing the Resolution and further for the purposes of considering, in accordance with s.142 of the Companies Act 1985, whether any, and if so what, steps should be taken to deal with the situation that the net assets of the Company are less than half of its called up share capital, the circular to be posted today gives notice of an EGM of the Company which will be held at Jurys Inn, Waterfront Plaza, Station Street, Nottingham NG2 3BJ at 9.00 a.m. on 15 February 2008.

The Directors believe that failure to pass the Resolution is likely to result in the Company breaching its borrowing restrictions under the Articles. This would cause the Company to be unable to fund its expected working capital requirements and/or would require the Company to repay a substantial amount of the Company's existing borrowings so that total borrowings do not exceed a sum equal to 'three times the adjusted total of capital and reserves', as defined in the Articles, which it would be unable to do. In these circumstances, the Board is of the opinion that alternative sources of finance would not be available and that the Board would be forced to seek the appointment of an administrator or pursue other insolvency proceedings shortly thereafter.

The Board is of the opinion that the Resolution is in the best interests of the Company's shareholders as a whole. Accordingly, in the circular to be posted today, the Board will be unanimously recommending that the shareholders of the Company vote in favour of the Resolution at the EGM, as the Directors intend to do in respect of their own beneficial holdings.

Copies of the circular have been submitted to the UK Listing Authority and will shortly be available for inspection at the UK Listing Authority's Document Viewing Facility, which is situated at The Financial Services Authority, 25 The North Colonnade, Canary Wharf, London E14 5HS.

[oohrogerpalmer] 22/1/2008 16:44

Would have thought that some form of announcement must be due soon.
Last news said that there was "significant progress being made and hope to announce deal early in new year".

Hopefully they mean this new year ???

[cappagh] 22/1/2008 09:14

There are some on here that must be under 25
and have had a very limited education.
No knowledge on financial history.
Please research the last 100 years of politics
and financial matters, then you will not blame
one person, one political party or one company.

In the mean time please stick to posting thoughts
and facts about C&C.
Thank You

[gta5] 18/1/2008 18:27

Insane,

What's your take on the near future re C&C?

I'm guessing as has been mentioned elsewhere that they will be more or less forced to release some kind of update with a real trading statement, current financial position and a plan for tackeling the near future.

Can't see this situation dragging on much longer now.

I wonder what the chances are for the currnet shares to retain any value..??


Thoughts?

GTA

[temporarily insane] 18/1/2008 18:24

Will596, I agree with you and appreciate your information

[lfdkmp] 18/1/2008 11:35

If there is, how shall we put it, lack of clarity in respect of the provenance of some (many) of the "candidates" , investigations could be long drawn out affairs.

Even if the candidates are real, many of them - splendid chaps and chapesses that they undoubtedly are - are not enthusiatic responders to requests for confirmatory details.

How do I know? I've been working in "Life Long Learning" etc, incl NVQ type programmes, in the very recent past. Have experience of working alongside Carter & Carter personnel.