Carclo Share Discussion Threads

[currypasty] 22/2/2018 14:46

queeny2, it seems to me insignificant what carclo pigeon hole the various contracts. Perhaps more important, and worrying is that a lot of wipac supercar/ premium/whatever brands (Lamborghin, Bently, Porche, etc etc) are all owned by VAG. Kick one, well could be awkward...

[queeny2] 22/2/2018 14:43

I do hope the directors weren't buying on different and better information than they announced the very same day. :)

[rivaldo] 22/2/2018 14:39

Dontay, it seems clear to me. The trading update noted:

"The LED Technologies business is still expected to grow significantly, moving forwards as the previously awarded mid-volume programmes commence production from 2019"

So the delays have arisen in the supercar segment rather than the mid-volume (i.e "premium") segment, although CAR referring to the delayed programmes CAR state "It is still anticipated that Wipac will be successful in winning a number of these programmes".

The unusually heavy director share buying indicates that the likelihood of CAR having received better news re the delayed programmes has increased somewhat.

[queeny2] 22/2/2018 14:27

Dontay see above. Who knows!

[queeny2] 22/2/2018 14:26

Pug thank you. Unset the 'about' tab it's clear Wipac does premium carmakers, that's it.I think the answer is that supercar = wipac = supercar and that while they were doing fine H1 the lack of orders means H2 terrible and overall materially below.Perhaps there's some distinction between supercars and premium cars but I don't think that's what they mean in the statement that confused me.

[dontay] 22/2/2018 14:05

Is it the case that at supercar level all continues to be fine and dandy for LED... but the hopes they had for the higher volume premium auto level are now falling apart?

[rivaldo] 21/2/2018 23:00

Interesting trades late today, with the share price breaking upwards out of the range it's been stuck in.

Around 70,000 shares were bought in the last 10 minutes of trading.

Hopefully the start of a decent bounce following the £140,000 or so of shares bought by the directors last month at around 84p.

[pugugly] 21/2/2018 17:00

QUEENY2 - FYI - Should help -

[queeny2] 21/2/2018 16:57

Oh I see. It performed well in H1 and even perhaps into H2 but then the brick wall of delayed orders appeared.

[queeny2] 21/2/2018 16:55

From the interim report"The Group's LED Technologies division is made up of our Wipac premium automotive lighting business, based in Buckingham, UK and our LED Optics and aftermarket business, based in Aylesbury UK."So I'm none the wiser.

[queeny2] 21/2/2018 11:29

Ignorant question I should know the answer to"Within LED Technologies, the Group's LED super car lighting business has performed as anticipated and new product launcheshave continued to be made on time. However, while the Wipac business has continued to operate well, delays in the award of threenew contracts are expected to materially reduce the division's profit for the current year. It is still anticipated that Wipac will besuccessful in winning a number of these programmes despite the uncertainty on timing."What is Wipac exactly? The supercar lighting is distinct, is Wipac all other car and other lighting? They are the two subsidiaries of LED? It's confusingly worded.

[yump] 14/2/2018 17:53

Well the fact that someone said it wouldn't clearly has conclusive statistical validity, so I must remember to sell anytime someone says something won't happen on one of my investments.

Oh, looking back that leaves me with 100% cash instead of 3x what I had in 2010
:-((

[queeny2] 14/2/2018 16:11

You still going denc? Marvellous.

[denc] 14/2/2018 15:38

Was this the company was going to make fortunes with screen technology? Though i did tell you it wouldn't.

[queeny2] 05/2/2018 14:35

Last year's timetable was a January trading update (perhaps issued just to cleanse a shareholder presentation being given later that day) on January 30, then Y/E update on April 11th. So I wouldn't expect anything before April 11th, but I would expect something around then.Unless there's something materially different to the recent trading update, which would be difficult given that it was scattered with 'substantially below' and 'materially affected', if I was the company I would keep quiet until I knew exactly what I wanted to say.I've just noticed they bought another supplier last March, not big, but still. I hate it when people do that. Curry, you know they aren't allowed to pay dividends for the time being due to negative retained earnings in the relevant company, right? I was only observing that their words about corporate reorganisation and resuming dividends can be shelved for now.Have you looked at the pension fund deficit issue at all? I will again when I have time, see when the next triennial negotiation with the trustees is due.

[meijiman] 05/2/2018 14:16

Shambolic state of affairs at this company. I find it somewhat ironic that of the non-execs presided over a share price which went up several multiples -what he makes of this Lord only knows.

[currypasty] 05/2/2018 13:45

Interims for half year ending 30/9 were on 14/11
Finals for full year ending 31/03 I would guess will be release in June (6/6 last year)


That gives 4 months to issue an update on those lagging orders and sales. It is difficult to predict if the directors will hold firm on price and risk losing orders completely or buckle and win orders on low margin. Investors watching the likes of Carillion would be nervous of contracts at any price.

your points, Queeny are very valid. The dividend, imo, is pie in the sky. There is no way they can afford that, or should even consider it with that level of debt.

I await an update RNS!

[queeny2] 02/2/2018 09:49

Currypasty and illis,Year end imminent, and following shock profit warning that usually means some balance sheet stuff, whether asset write downs, restructuring costs, that kind of thing, separate from my second shoe which was really profit related, although the strategic review of ctp's steady state margins could fall into both.The company has three pressures on balance sheet- they can't pay dividends, and that can only be worsened/extended?they have reasonable debt and facilities, so banks are a stakeholder, and restructuring, if needed, takes cashthe pension fund arrears, which I haven't looked at recently, usual three year timetable any views?

[beeezzz] 30/1/2018 21:45

Companies that rely solely as a third party supplier is more vulnerable to downturns, rather than producing their own products to sell, ensuring they control the margins.

[edmundshaw] 29/1/2018 15:21

Thanks CurryP. I am looking to buy CAR shares, and I am definitely hanging fire until the next RNS! Better a smaller profit than a loss, and, yes, this looks like the kind of profit warning that can repeat.

If I were a holder, and had a good feeling about the company, I would probably just sit on it, but knowing it could go down again on the next RNS even if all it does is confirm the last. But I would sit expecting an eventual recovery. Not being a holder I don't really have much of a feeling for things here...

[currypasty] 29/1/2018 14:46

queeny2, "My smell test and experience with profit warnings and new brooms tells me 90% another shoe to drop. At the very least Rollins will kitchen sink as much as he can, but I am nearly certain there is more to come anyway."


you may be right, in the profits warning
"there has been an unexpected delay in the awarding of two large tooling and automation contracts. In addition, a large and long standing non-medical customer which had been indicating a strong second half for our moulded components has not yet increased its orders"
and..
"while the Wipac business has continued to operate well, delays in the award of three new contracts are expected to materially reduce the division's profit for the current year. It is still anticipated that Wipac will be successful in winning a number of these programmes despite the uncertainty on timing. "


in my experience, delays in being awarded contracts usually means the customer is not happy with the price, and is looking elsewhere, while at the same time, the supplier is furiously looking ways to cut costs, to reduce the quote price.

If the gap between the two is large, it may not be worth chasing the business as no one wants to be a 'busy fool'

If I were looking to buy CAR shares, I would probably hang fire until the next RNS clarifies the large orders situation. Now that they have identified this as an issue, they should be duty bound to update in due course.

[rivaldo] 29/1/2018 09:10

Cheers ansc - great to see an NED buying £55,000 of shares at 84p or so. Another encouraging sign. That's £140,000 of director purchases in the last few days:

[mister md] 27/1/2018 18:32

Except you’ll be paying 120p by that stage ;)

[ansc] 27/1/2018 16:10

'If he keeps buying I shall pay attention'

Lol