Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Capital Gearing Trust Plc LSE:CGT London Ordinary Share GB0001738615 ORD 25P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  +10.00p +0.23% 4,300.00p 4,290.00p 4,320.00p 4,300.00p 4,290.00p 4,290.00p 7,038 15:16:33
Industry Sector Turnover (m) Profit (m) EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap (m)
Equity Investment Instruments 4.7 3.7 51.1 84.1 430

Capital Gearing Share Discussion Threads

Showing 8001 to 8024 of 8275 messages
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DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
07/4/2016
17:08
Sorry all, Doug at the CGT Calc website emailed me just now saying showing the tax calc. I forgot about the tiered rate between 18% and 28%. so obviously my blended rate is lower. Been a while since i had a capital gain calc to do!
randowiggum
07/4/2016
15:57
randowiggum Can you post the numbers ie. the tax year and your capital gain so we can check. David is right, the main thing is the actual capital gain, the HMRC will automatically work out your tax due based on a lot of other factors no doubt. CGTCalculator just assumes there is zero income. However it would be good to make sure the value is correct.
rangers99
07/4/2016
15:34
I guess its much the same with the CGT calc, as long as i dont use the tax due i shouldnt have an issue. Up to the calc of the taxable gain i should be fine?
randowiggum
07/4/2016
13:03
That's why the stonebanks calculator calculator doesn't try to calculate the tax due, it just calculates gains and losses. It provides the figures you need for the SA108 tax form.
david77
07/4/2016
11:33
Hi all, Do you know if the CGTCalulator website is up to date? I have used it in the past and now i have gains went back to it. But the implied CGT rate it gives me is 24% which is too low for 2015/16 tax year. I am assuming the way it calculates the taxable gain is right however! R
randowiggum
04/4/2016
11:19
Yes, allowable capital losses on any type of asset can be offset against chargeable capital gains on any other type of asset (or the same type, of course). There are plenty of restrictions on whether a loss is allowable at all, such as the one that if a loss isn't 'claimed' by telling HMRC about it before a deadline, then it isn't allowable, or that if an asset is exempt from CGT, for instance due to being shares held in an ISA, then losses on it aren't allowable. And there are a few restrictions on offsetting allowable losses that depend on the people or other legal entities involved, e.g. some that can apply when trusts are involved, or the 'clogged loss' rule (which says that if you realise an allowable loss by disposing of an asset to a 'connected person', then that loss can only be offset against gains realised on other disposals to the same 'connected person'). But none that I am aware of that depend directly on the type of asset. Gengulphus
gengulphus
01/4/2016
13:53
Does anyone know if I can offset losses on shares against cgt on property?
sniffer2
21/3/2016
12:18
Sorry, it's not as simple as that. The final outcome of the calculations you are expected to do might be equivalent to it, but it's by no means guaranteed and even if it is equivalent, the taxman may well want more information. Things that can stop it being equivalent include: * The period across which all this happened being split between more than one tax year - if it is, the question arises of how the overall loss breaks down into gains and losses in the individual tax years. * You having any shareholdings in any of the shares you traded in any non-tax-sheltered account (not just the account you're talking about) or indeed as certificates, from 30 days before the start of that period to 30 days after its end. If you do, the existence of those holdings and/or of transactions in them may well interact with the calculations of the actual gains and losses. * You having any other assets that you sold (or otherwise disposed of) and that are not exempt from CGT in the tax year concerned - in particular, gains on those assets might be required to be offset by the losses you incurred by trading (which depending on the various amounts involved, could make it pointless claiming the losses, essential to do so in order to avoid CGT, or various other possibilities). And to be clear, "any other assets" in that means both shares that weren't included in your trading and non-share assets, again regardless of where/how they're held, except that assets held in tax shelters (e.g. ISAs, SIPPs) can be disregarded. * You receiving any dividends or other income payments in the share dealing account during the period concerned - income payments do not count as capital gains for tax purposes and so any such payments need to be disregarded in establishing what the capital gains and losses are. * Quite possibly some other things I haven't thought of offhand! As regards what calculations you're expected to do: you're basically expected to calculate the gain or loss on each sale (or other disposal) of an asset subject to CGT during the tax year concerned. For assets that are neither shares nor share-like securities (in the sense of being able to buy multiples of them that are not distinguishable from each other), that's a straightforward matter of subtracting the amount you received on the sale from the total paid for the asset. For assets that are shares or share-like securities, it's more complex but does simplify down to the same thing provided (a) that it's a sale of the full holding - treating multiple sales on the same day as though they were a single sale of the total number of shares for the total sale proceeds, but not doing that for sales on different days; (b) that if you bought on the same day as you sold, the shares bought were included in the sale - i.e. it doesn't simplify if you sell your full holding in the morning and then buy a new holding in the afternoon; (c) that you don't buy the same type of share in the next 30 days after the sale. The calculation of the gain or loss is liable to get more complicated if any of those isn't the case. Having calculated all those gains and losses on individual sales, you're then expected to add up all the gains for the tax year, add up all the losses for the tax year, and offset them against each other as far as possible - i.e. down to the originally-smaller one of them being zero and the originally-larger one being the difference of the two original amounts. If that results in some gains remaining, those gains are free of CGT up to the amount of the CGT allowance; any that are in excess of that are either offset by brought-forward losses from earlier tax years (if available) or actually taxed by CGT. If it instead results in some losses remaining (as sounds likely but not certain in your case), you can claim them and carry them forward to later tax years. Note also that if the original total of the gains before offsetting the losses was over the CGT allowance, you need to claim the losses in order to offset them and avoid having to pay CGT. It's only if that original total of the gains is within the CGT allowance and bigger than the original total of the losses that you've nothing to gain by claiming them - and even then, if you are nevertheless required to complete the capital gains part of a tax return for the year concerned, you need to detail the losses as part of making the tax return complete and correct. Which brings me on to what information the taxman requires: if he asks you to complete a tax return, you need to follow its instructions about when to complete its capital gains part. They say that you need to do that (specifically, complete its Capital Gains Summary supplementary pages and accompany them with calculations detailing the gains and losses, or the online equivalent) if any of a number of conditions applies. One of those conditions is that you want to claim capital losses or make other CGT claims or elections - so the fact that you want to claim capital losses means that you do have to do so. And some of the details requested by the Capital Gains Summary pages are separate totals of gains and losses (and indeed separated a bit more than that, into quoted shares, unquoted shares and other assets IIRC), so I'm afraid that just an overall loss figure won't be good enough. If the taxman doesn't ask you to fill in a tax return, you're still subject to the rule that capital losses must be claimed in order to be usable. So you either complete one voluntarily (in which case the last paragraph applies) or you contact the taxman to say that you want to claim the losses. My guess is that the best way to do that is phone, explain that you aren't currently required to fill in a tax return, give a summary of your position (e.g. that you have more capital losses than gains and want to claim the losses so that you can carry their excess over the gains forward to future tax years, or that you have capital gains over the CGT allowance and need to claim your losses in order to bring the gains down to being within the allowance), and ask what they want you to do. It may well be that they decide they want you to complete a tax return, of course, but they may have a simpler alternative... I do suggest making certain you understand your position with regard to both gains and losses first, though: if you seem unclear about it, my guess is that they're more likely to think "we need a tax return to get a proper picture"! I do realise that if you've traded extensively, there may well be hundreds of individual gain/loss calculations involved... :-( If so, you're not the first person to have encountered that problem - see e.g. the header of the other CGT thread http://uk.advfn.com/cmn/fbb/thread.php3?id=1012749 . There is however some good news: the two free CGT calculators around (available from the links in this thread's header) should be able to do most or all of the individual gain/loss calculations for you - you'll need to feed them with a record of your individual trades, but they'll deal with understanding the calculation rules in detail. In particular, they can cope with partial sales and with the rules about multiple trades on the same day or buying 30 or fewer days after a sale. Their main weakness is that they don't really understand the rules about shareholdings that are affected by corporate actions during the holding period, such as share splits, share consolidations, mergers, demergers, rights issues, etc. It's usually possible to tweak their inputs to end up with getting the correct results out at the end, but that's a bit of an own goal: to be certain that you've tweaked the inputs correctly, you need to know the calculation rules in detail and check that the calculator has done something equivalent to the correct calculation - but the main point of using the calculators is that they save you from doing the correct calculation yourself! But in the case where the calculators are especially valuable, i.e. processing a large number of individual gains on holdings held for only short periods, it's likely that only a very small proportion of the holding periods involve such corporate actions - and so while the calculators might not save you all the work of calculating individual gains and losses, they'll almost certainly save you the vast majority of it. You do have to take care to give the calculators sufficient data to allow them to produce the correct answers, and that does require a bit of understanding of the calculation rules. To be on the safe side, to do the calculations for any particular share for a tax year, you should give the calculator details of not just all the transactions in that share during that tax year, but also: * All transactions in the 30 days following the last sale in the tax year, even if they extend into the next tax year (or just give details of all transactions in the first 30 days of the next tax year regardless - i.e. all transactions up to and including May 5th of the next tax year). * All transactions before the tax year and after the last time that you went 30 clear days with no holding in the share. Having given the calculator that extended data, it will calculate gains or losses on any sales it contains that lie outside the tax year you're interested in. Disregard any such gains and losses. It may be that the calculators have facilities to do that for you, but I'm afraid I don't know them in enough detail to know whether they do, and if so, what those facilities are. (That's because I don't use the calculators myself - I think they're excellent if one has lots of short-term trading, but I'm very much a Long Term Buy & Hold investor myself, so that a large proportion of my holdings have corporate actions on them at some stage of types the calculators don't really handle...) Gengulphus
gengulphus
19/3/2016
16:57
Help.. Please tell me that is it as simple as I deposited x amount to my share dealing account.....i have x amount left which is less due to poor trading (in and out of small caps mainly)so is the difference my loss and can o claim this as a loss? Most holdings were for trades and only held for short periods.
daveandlaura
05/2/2016
20:55
A fair amount of experience, but mainly a 'packrat memory' - no guarantee that any particular fact will stick in it, but an awful lot of stuff does! Gengulphus
gengulphus
05/2/2016
07:33
Thank you for your detailed response Gengulphus. You must have a vast amount of experience to put something together like that so soon!
sesame03
04/2/2016
11:28
Until and unless you withdraw the shares from the ISA, neither gains nor losses on them count for CGT purposes, so it's completely pointless submitting a negligible value claim for them. If and when you do withdraw them, your gain/loss computation will be based on the value of the shares when you withdraw them from the ISA, as though you had bought them at that price, and a subsequent negligible value claim can only cause you to be treated as having realised a loss from that price (so the most such a subsequent loss can be is the shares' value at the time of withdrawal). The ISA provider will give you their valuation of the shares at that time. No, that valuation is not necessarily going to be the last closing price: it's supposed to be a fair valuation of the shares at the time of withdrawal, taking into account any known events between the last close and the withdrawal from the ISA. And whatever it is, both you and the taxman can argue that it's wrong - valuation is not an exact science in the absence of firm market prices - and ultimately it's a matter for you and the taxman to settle between you. Having said that, I suspect that if you accept the ISA provider's valuation, so will the taxman unless something actively raises the question of whether it's a good valuation to his attention. Nothing actually "triggers" a negligible value claim other than your desire to make one. But I imagine you really mean something like "what event would cause a subsequent negligible value claim to stand a reasonable chance of success?"... The answer to that is basically just that the shares must have become of negligible value (i.e. worth nothing or next to nothing) during the ownership period concerned - i.e. from the time that you withdraw them from the ISA until you make the claim. In particular, they must not have had negligible value when you withdrew them from the ISA, and they must have had negligible value by the time you make the claim. Also, note that you can choose an earlier date on which you are to be treated as having realised the loss than the date you actually make the claim, as long as it is in the same tax year or one of the two preceding tax years, but if you do so, the shares must have had negligible value on that earlier date. (And by the way, choosing an earlier date than the date you actually make the claim is quite normal - e.g. if someone submitted their tax return for 2014/2015 last month with a negligible value claim for a loss they wanted to use in that tax return's CGT computations, the date they would have made the claim is in the 2015/2016 tax year, but the claim would be to realise the loss on a date in the 2014/2015 tax year.) Judging whether a share has become of negligible value is basically just a specific instance of the general problem of valuing shares, which as I say above is not an exact science in the absence of firm market prices. But I would suggest the following guidelines: * If there is still a reasonable possibility of a return to shareholders, the shares are not yet of negligible value. It doesn't have to be a high chance - based on what you say about Oxus Gold's appeal, the possibility that success at the appeal will come to shareholders' rescue should be enough to say that the shares are not yet of negligible value - it's a reasonable possibility as things stand. But you don't have to worry about unreasonably unlikely possibilities such as someone doing a routine inspection of a thought-to-be-worthless gold mine happening to kick a rock over and expose an unsuspected rich seam of gold! (There are CGT rules in place about what to do if such an unforeseeable return to shareholders does happen after a negligible value claim has been successfully made - basically, whatever the shareholder gets out of it then counts as pure capital gain - but that situation can only arise after it has been determined that there is no reasonably foreseeable possibility that gives the shareholder a return.) * On the few occasions I've owned shares in a company that has gone into administration, at some stage during the administration the administrators have written a letter to shareholders saying that they can no longer reasonably expect any return, or words to a similar effect. I believe such a letter is a good indication that a negligible value claim would succeed from then on, provided of course that the claim is made for a date on or after the letter's date. * I haven't ever needed to do so, but in the absence of such a letter it is of course possible to write a letter to the administrators asking them whether they think there is any realistic prospect of a return to shareholders. Possibly with a brief explanation that you need the information for the purpose of determining whether the shares are of negligible value for tax purposes, but if so, make it clear that you are not asking for tax advice: they won't be allowed to give you that. In particular, don't ask them whether the shares are of negligible value for tax purposes: that's a tax opinion and so is tax advice. But they should be able to answer a question about the reasonably possible outcomes of the administration, leaving you to form your own tax opinion about the value of the shares. Finally, about the two possibilities you mention: * De-listing of a company's shares is basically irrelevant to the question of whether they are of negligible value: there are plenty of unlisted companies whose shares are most definitely not of negligible value. * Dissolution of a company is relevant to negligible value claims, but probably not in the way that you think... It's relevant because there is a requirement that for a negligible value claim to be successful, the claimant must still own the shares when they make the claim (and if the claim is to be treated as realising the loss on an earlier date, also on that earlier date). Dissolution of the company means that its shares cease to exist, and you cannot own non-existent shares! So dissolution of the company results in it immediately ceasing to be possible to make a negligible value claim about its shares. That's not as harsh as it sounds, because ceasing to own the shares as a result of the dissolution also counts as a disposal of them for CGT purposes - for £0 since you didn't receive anything for them. So that means that you actually realise the loss on the date of dissolution - i.e. as well as no longer being able to make a negligible value claim, you would also no longer need to make one to be able to use the loss: you would just need to claim the loss in precisely the same way as you would claim any normal loss (including the usual 4-years-after-the-end-of-the-tax-year-in-which-realised deadline for doing so). But you would lose the flexibility about when the loss is realised: while the company was still undissolved, you could make a negligible value claim for it to be treated as realised on any date in up to three tax years, as described above; after it is dissolved, you have no choice - the loss has been realised on the date of dissolution. Gengulphus
gengulphus
04/2/2016
08:02
No tax on gains in an ISA, no tax relief on losses in an ISA.
david77
03/2/2016
23:02
Hi, I hold shares in Oxus Gold within an ISA. During December trading was suspended following the conclusion of arbitration in which they were awarded $10m (much less than was claimed). The company intends to appeal the decision however in the meantime administrators have been appointed. Assuming the appeal fails and no money is available to return to shareholders (following payment to legal funders, creditors etc), is it possible I could make a negligible value claim? I understand that if I request paper share certificates from the broker (Halifax) the shares are automatically withdrawn from the ISA and I am notified of the value on the withdrawal date. Assuming the shares are still listed when I do this the value would be 3.12p (the last closing price). Also (provided a claim is possible) what event would trigger the negligible value claim? Would I need to wait until the company de-listed or until it was dissolved perhaps? Would a small dividend, say 0.25p invalidate the claim? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. There is also the hope that the appeal results in an increased payout however it looks doubtful and if I took the shares out of an ISA I understand I would risk a CGT bill.
sesame03
02/2/2016
23:36
Cheers Gengulphus.As I thought.
ryanwolves
02/2/2016
23:12
Yes, claiming a loss counts as a claim. So do various other matters, such as negligible value claims: you can pretty safely assume that if HMRC's description of something you could put in your tax return uses the word "claim", it counts as a claim. (And even if that assumption turns out to be wrong in some case that I'm not aware of, you would have a pretty easy defence: you answered the question HMRC asked accurately. Any problem with the answer is due to HMRC not asking their intended question, not to any inaccuracy on your part.) Gengulphus
gengulphus
01/2/2016
10:53
Thank you david77 and Gengulphus for your prompt and comprehensive reply's. Most helpful. Would be grateful if you could take a look at the following question: i file online.Do i need to answer yes to the question in the CGT section asking whether i wish to make any claims or elections?Not sure if this covers claims for losses or whether it relates to other matters. Many thanks.
ryanwolves
01/2/2016
10:07
1)Can CGT losses on shares be offset against income tax? Not usually. There are some exceptions where they can - e.g. I vaguely recall there are (or maybe were) some among the tax benefits given to EIS (Enterprise Investment Scheme) shares and/or VCTs (Venture Capital Trusts), but I don't remember the details... So if there is anything 'special' in tax terms about the types of shares involved, it might be worth checking up on the detailed rules. Otherwise, you're pretty safe assuming the answer is "no". 2)Made some gains in the tax year,but these are surpassed by the losses. Do i offset the gains against my annual CGT allowance first and then reduce my losses by any remaining gain over the annual CGT allowance? More the latter, but it's a bit of a mixture. Basically, it is: 1) Offset losses realised in the same tax year against the gains. Do that as far as possible. If there are more such losses than gains, the gains can only be reduced to £0 and the remaining losses are carried forward to future tax years. 2) If there are any remaining gains, reduce them by the CGT allowance. Again, they cannot go negative, so if the remaining gains are less than the CGT allowance, reduce them to £0 (and there is nothing you can do with the remaining CGT allowance). 3) If there are still some remaining gains and you have any losses brought forward from previous tax years, use those losses to reduce those remaining gains as far as possible. Again, the gains cannot drop below £0, so either you use up all the brought-forward losses and any remaining gains are taxable, or the remaining gains are reduced to £0 and any remaining brought-forward losses are carried forward again. (This is often presented in a different order, first offsetting the same-year losses, then offsetting the brought-forward losses but only to the extent (if any) needed to reduce the remaining gains to the CGT allowance, then offsetting the CGT allowance. The two presentations are equivalent - I happen to find the above a bit more memorable.) Or would it be as follows : Total gains for year 20,000 Total losses for year (40,000) Nett loss for year (20,000) As this is the first time you've realised a net loss for the year, you cannot have any losses brought forward from previous years and so those losses must all be same-year losses (which is implied by your wording anyway). So yes, you offset £20k of the losses against the £20k gains in step 1, leaving £20k of losses to be carried forward into 2016/2017, and steps 2 and 3 don't do anything because there are no remaining gains. But if for instance you were to realise £25k of gains and £10k of losses in the 2016/2017 tax year, you would then have £25k of gains and £30k of losses available for that tax year, the losses being split as £10k same-year losses, £20k brought-forward losses. In that case, step 1 would reduce the gains to £15k, step 2 would reduce them further to £3.9k (assuming the CGT allowance for 2016/2017 is the same as the £11.1k allowance for 2015/2016), and step 3 would reduce them to £0, leaving £16.1k of the brought-forward losses to be carried forward again into 2017/2018. 3)Had a couple of companies go under this tax year. How many years after they went bust can i make a negligible value claim on my tax return for the loss? There's no numerical time limit on making a negligible value claim - but it is limited by the restrictions for making one. Those restrictions include among others: * You must still own the asset concerned. I.e. you must not have transferred the shares to someone else (not possible on the market, of course, but a private sale or a gift might be possible), and the shares must still actually exist. They cease to exist when the company is dissolved, so at that point you cease to be able to make a negligible value claim - but at the same time you actually realise the loss, and then the normal "4 years after the end of the tax year the loss was realised" deadline applies. For UK companies that were traded on the main market of the London Stock Exchange, HMRC's negligible value list should tell you whether the company has been dissolved and if so, when - note that it can be many years after the company went bust, as all its affairs need to have been closed out completely before it can be dissolved. But more generally and closer to the "horse's nouth", for all UK companies you can check on whether the company has been dissolved (and if so, when) at Companies House. * You name a date in the negligible value claim on which you wish the loss to be treated as having been realised. That date must be after the shares became of negligible value, and it must be in the tax year in which you make the claim or one of the preceding two tax years. (For a negligible value claim made in a tax return, it will normally be in the first preceding tax year - e.g. if you make a negligible value claim for a company that went bust in 2015/2016 in your 2015/2016 tax return, which is something you would prepare and submit during the 2016/2017 tax year.) That basically gives you some flexibility about when you want to bring a negligible value claim into your CGT accounting. That flexibility vanishes when the company is dissolved: at that point, the loss is actually realised (on the date of dissolution) and you can no longer make a negligible value claim - not even one that names a date before it was dissolved. For something more extensive that I wrote on the subject recently, see http://boards.fool.co.uk/outside-isas-i-have-share-trading-gains-of-about-13316761.aspx . Gengulphus
gengulphus
01/2/2016
08:31
1: No 2: Use either of the free CGT calculators listed at the top of the page to find your net position. Download SA108 from the HMRC website - that should answer most of your questions. 3: Don't know the right answer, but I would claim on my tax return and see what happens - and you are late for the last tax year.
david77
31/1/2016
22:24
Not sure if this thread is still functioning as no posts for some time. Here goes with a few questions re. CGT losses on shares, Never had a nett trading loss before,however,looking like i will have a significant loss for the 2015-16 tax year. Unsure on the rules re. claiming the losses: 1)Can CGT losses on shares be offset against income tax? 2)Made some gains in the tax year,but these are surpassed by the losses. Do i offset the gains against my annual CGT allowance first and then reduce my losses by any remaining gain over the annual CGT allowance? As an example Total gains 20,000 Less Annual CGT allowance 11,000 Gain carried forward 9,000 Total losses (40,000) Nett Loss for Year (31,000) Or would it be as follows : Total gains for year 20,000 Total losses for year (40,000) Nett loss for year (20,000) 3)Had a couple of companies go under this tax year. How many years after they went bust can i make a negligible value claim on my tax return for the loss? Would really appreciate any help.
ryanwolves
15/9/2015
20:53
Thank you gentlemen for your informed and prompt responses.
garrymorrow
15/9/2015
20:51
Yes indeed bones. Thanks for your help gentlemen.
garrymorrow
15/9/2015
20:49
Gengulphus Excellent response. I will ask the taxman. Your correspondence has crystalized my thoughts and has helped me draft my ideas. My capital loss is embarrassing and well worth recovering. Many thanks Garry Morrow
garrymorrow
15/9/2015
09:00
I did some research into this a few years ago and it was something to do with it being "chess depositary" or something, was what I was told (mumbo jumbo to me). Not sure if that helps?
bones30
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