Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Capital Gearing Trust Plc LSE:CGT London Ordinary Share GB0001738615 ORD 25P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  +10.00p +0.23% 4,300.00p 4,290.00p 4,320.00p 4,300.00p 4,290.00p 4,290.00p 7,038 15:16:33
Industry Sector Turnover (m) Profit (m) EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap (m)
Equity Investment Instruments 4.7 3.7 51.1 84.1 430

Capital Gearing Share Discussion Threads

Showing 7951 to 7973 of 8275 messages
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DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
10/6/2015
13:24
To the person who contacted me by ADVFN "private message": please use these bulletin boards instead of such messages to ask me about CGT. Sorry, but I'm simply not willing to do such stuff privately, partly because only one person benefits that way rather than potentially every reader of the board, partly because if I make a mistake, there's a better chance that someone will catch and correct it. (I'm posting this reply to both CGT boards, by the way, as I don't know which board they came from. And I'm deliberately not identifying the person concerned - I see no reason to 'name and shame' someone about ignoring a strong preference they probably didn't know I have!) The answer to your question is basically that everything that happens inside an ISA is completely invisible to CGT. List all your trades outside the ISA (I'm assuming you don't have shares in any other tax shelters, such as SIPPs - if you do, take "outside the ISA" to mean "outside the ISA or any other tax shelter") and do your CGT calculations on them; don't even bother listing the trades inside the ISA. In particular, if you have shares in the same company both inside and outside the ISA, only list and perform calculations on the shares outside the ISA - ignore the ones inside it. I say "basically" above because there are a few awkward cases: * It is possible to transfer shares out of an ISA. If you do that, your ISA manager is supposed to tell you the value of the shares on the date of the transfer: you then treat them for CGT purposes as though you bought them at that value on the date of the transfer. (If your ISA manager doesn't tell you that information, ask them!) * In rare circumstances, to do with shares obtained from some types of employee share scheme, it is possible to transfer shares into an ISA. I am not certain just what the CGT treatment is in that case - so if it applies, ask the scheme manager. * There is also the recent change that someone whose spouse or civil partner dies gets an additional ISA allowance equal to the value of their ISAs on death. I've seen indications that in some circumstances, it's acceptable for the holdings in the deceased's ISAs to be transferred directly into ISAs belonging to their partner. Technically, that probably involves a transfer of the holdings from outside an ISA to inside one, as the general rule is that ISAs cease to be ISAs on the date of death... I'm afraid I don't know the CGT treatment in that case either - a question to ask when going through the admin of getting the extra ISA allowance, I suspect. * Otherwise, all supposed 'transfers' into ISAs are not in fact transfers at all, but 'bed and ISA' packages of three transactions: a sale of the holding outside the ISA, a cash subscription to the ISA, and a repurchase of the holding inside the ISA (probably slightly reduced by the trading costs). Dealing with their CGT is simply a matter of applying the general rule: pay attention to the sale outside the ISA, ignore the repurchase inside the ISA (and ignore the cash ISA subscription - such subscriptions never have any CGT consequences). Gengulphus
gengulphus
07/6/2015
13:27
So annual report out. They did, in my view, rather stupidly blow their 29 year dividend record last year - crazy imho - this year it's bounced back to 20p from 16p. It will take them another 30 years to get the record back again - what stupidity! Anyway, results steady. Long term a safe share to have in your portfolio. Overall, I'm not convinced by their comment "The reason the portfolio contains such high levels of cash and short duration assets is to ensure dry powder for deployment when values are better." Fair point indeed....but, there is no real evidence that they switched to equities in 2009 which was a great buying opportunity. Will they do it next time or are they just too cautious for their own good. Looks like they are moving to a zero discount policy which should aid liquidity and increase the size of the trust. On balance, I think this is a good move. Certainly happy to hold in my portfolio like Personal Assets as it's good to see what they are doing. I particularly like to look at their investment trust, zero dividend preference shares and fixed interest portfolio for insight into opportunities.
topvest
04/5/2015
09:06
Tarny I think you will find the gain/loss would have been accrued in the tax year you transferred the shares into your ISA, from that year on no further gain/losses can be attributed to CGT calculations
steptoe57
03/5/2015
23:02
Thanks for that much appreciated! BTW...it was a Bed-and-ISA
tarny
03/5/2015
12:30
Tarny, Just to explain david77's answer a bit more: * You almost certainly didn't transfer the shares into your ISA two years ago, but 'bed-and-ISA' them - that is, sell them outside the ISA, transfer the cash in as an ISA subscription, and then use the cash inside the ISA to buy the shares again. The reason I say that is simply that transferring shares into an ISA isn't allowed by the ISA regulations, except in some very limited circumstances to do with some employee share schemes (and the timescales you indicate don't fit those limited circumstances). * Your broker may well have offered the bed-and-ISA as though it were a single transaction, but if so, that's just a package deal offered by the broker. As far as tax is concerned, it's the three separate transactions: sell outside ISA, ISA subscription, buy inside ISA. * Purchases and sales outside an ISA (and also outside any other tax shelter) are subject to CGT - so the 'sell outside ISA' part of the bed-and-ISA will have matched purchases you made outside the ISA. That will have realised a gain or a loss at the time you did the bed-and-ISA, i.e. two years ago. (Or in some fairly unlikely circumstances, it could even have realised more than one gain and/or loss.) * Purchases and sales inside an ISA (or inside another tax shelter) are exempt from CGT, which means that they basically don't feature at all in the CGT calculation: they don't get matched to each other or to any other purchases and sales, no gains or losses are calculated on them, etc, etc, etc. So the 'buy inside ISA' part of the bed-and-ISA and the fact that they've now gone into administration don't feature at all in your CGT calculations - you would probably like them to, but ISAs are completely exempt from CGT and that applies to both gains and losses. The net result is that you certainly cannot claim the loss between the value of the shares when the bed-and-ISA was done and their value now - but you might be able to claim a loss between what you originally bought the shares for and their value when the bed-and-ISA was done (specifically, what the 'sell outside ISA' part of the bed-and-ISA sold them for), if that was actually a loss and you haven't already claimed it. If so, whether the extra loss back then actually saves you any CGT (and if so, which years it saves you CGT in) is worked out by the standard rules for offsetting losses against gains and carrying losses forward, starting in the year in which it was realised (so it isn't automatically usable in 2014/2015 - it might get carried forward partially or completely until then, but equally, it might not). Equally, if the difference between the original purchase price and what the 'sell outside ISA' part of the bed-and-ISA sold them for was a gain, and you were supposed to tell the taxman about it but didn't because you didn't realise there was such a gain, you need to own up to the mistake. Gengulphus
gengulphus
03/5/2015
07:45
Hi could someone please help....I have held shares in a company for around 10 years and transferred them into my ISA two years ago. They have now been suspended as its in Administration. Could I offset my CGT for 2014-2015 against this loss? TIA
tarny
03/5/2015
07:45
Hi could someone please help....I have held shares in a company for around 10 years and transferred them into my ISA two years ago. They have now been suspended as its in Administration. Could I offset my CGT for 2014-2015 against this loss? TIA
tarny
01/5/2015
15:44
Thanks David. I've tried a more complicated set of trades on both versions and each version produces exactly the same result.
sleveen
01/5/2015
11:31
I've updated my CGT prog - it's now at option 2 on www.stonebanks.co.uk I have put the earlier version as option 3 just in case. The earlier version does same day deals, then buys within 30 days of a sale, then does the rest. The later version does everything in date order but still obeys the rules. Both versions give similar results for my last year's list of deals and for sleveen's sample data at #845.
david77
27/4/2015
16:45
Interesting Sleveen - the earlier version hTTp://homepage.ntlworld.com/stonebanks/0809tax31.htm gives the right result. I've put the earlier version back on the website. I will have a look at the prog.
david77
27/4/2015
16:02
Hi David There seem to be an issue with your CGT calculator. The transactions below are matched and therefore there should be no shares held after each transaction. However your calculator states I have a 50k share holding remaining. It seems to be adding the 20k and 30k purchases together. Please would you have a look. TIA. CAZA 23/04/14, b, 50000, 10.29, 5150.95 26/04/14, s, 50000, 11.0251, 5506.60 18/09/14, b, 20000, 19.25, 3855.95 18/09/14, s, 20000, 20.81, 4156.05 18/12/14, b, 30000, 8.7, 2615.95 18/12/14, s, 30000, 8.17, 2445.05
sleveen
19/4/2015
20:58
TU - there are two free CGT calculators on line - option 2 on www.stonebanks.co.uk and www.CGTcalculator.com
david77
19/4/2015
19:39
Thanks guys ;-)
theuniversal
19/4/2015
16:44
Im glad you have mentioned the 3 part of bed and isa which is what im trying to solve I've looked on the hmrc app under isa, shares and cgt it does not mentioned what you have said about bed and isa being in 3 parts.... That's because "bed and ISA" is basically just the name of a package deal offered by some brokers: you ask your broker to do it and (assuming your broker offers "bed and ISA") you get its three parts (the sale outside the ISA, the ISA subscription and the purchase inside the ISA) as an agreed-once package from the broker. The same sort of thing as happens if you book a package holiday: the whole thing is agreed once, but has multiple parts (the flights, the hotel accommodation, the food, maybe some excursions, etc). The taxman won't in general have special rules for each part of such a deal: he'll just tax each part separately by the normal rules, which in the case of a bed-and-ISA are: * Sale outside the ISA: CGT might be due from the investor, according to the normal CGT rules. * Subscription to the ISA: No tax actually due, but the ISA provider will be required to report the subscription to HMRC. * Purchase inside the ISA: Stamp duty normally due, though it might not be (e.g. if the shares bought are AIM shares). The stamp duty is paid directly to HMRC by the broker, but the broker will pass the cost on to the investor via the contract note. So don't expect the taxman to have special rules about such package deals: he just taxes the separate parts normally. As another example, if your local supermarket has a "4 bottles for the price of 3" offer on beer, the taxman is still going to collect the excise duty on 4 bottles of beer: the fact that the supermarket is offering the 4 bottles for the price of 3 is simply a private offer the supermarket is making to its customers. Likewise, a "bed and ISA" is simply a private offer the broker is making to its customers. Unlike the supermarket offer, it's not offering the goods (i.e. shares) for free: the extra that it is typically offering the brokers' customers is typically just that the purchase will happen very soon after the sale, so that there is unlikely to be much change in the share price between them. And some brokers offer another extra: they'll only want a single commission for the package deal, rather than two separate commissions, one for the sale and the other for the purchase. But the taxman doesn't really care about those extras: as far as he is concerned, what has happened is three separate transactions: a sale outside an ISA, an ISA subscription and a purchase inside an ISA. Nothing more than that, nothing less. Just too clarify those three parts as I understand it it would be much simpler to just put cash in the stock isa than bed and isa and worry about the tax man... then you can buy and sell with in the isa all you want.. It would be simpler, yes, but it wouldn't do the same thing: it would only do the ISA subscription and the purchase within the ISA, not the sale outside the ISA as well. Whether that matters depends on whether you want all parts of the package deal... If you've actually got £15k of cash outside the ISA that's available for investment, you probably only want the ISA subscription and one or more purchases inside the ISA - which means that you might well not want the package deal. Whether you do depends on whether you want the gains or losses from the sale outside the ISA - you might want gains to use up your ISA allowance, or losses to offset gains in excess of the allowance - and on whether having to purchase the same share(s) inside the ISA as you sold outside it matters to you. If you do want the package deal, take the bed-and-ISA package; if you don't, don't: you can always put together the bits you do want yourself. For example, I recently wanted to shift some shares of mine into my ISA. But I wanted the gains on those shares to be realised in the 2014/2015 tax year, and I'd already used my ISA allowance for that tax year, so the ISA subscription would have to happen in the 2015/2016 tax year. Furthermore, I wanted to reduce the holding overall - i.e. I wanted to sell quite a few more shares outside the ISA than I wanted to repurchase inside it. So I didn't try to do a bed-and-ISA: as separate transactions, I sold outside the ISA on Thursday April 2nd to raise enough cash for the new year's ISA subscription, subscribed to the ISA on Wednesday April 8th, and split that subscription between three purchases on Tuesday April 14th (later than I'd planned, as the broker was unusually slow about processing the ISA subscription). That cost me a bit more than a bed-and-ISA would have done, both because of the extra broker commissions and because the price of the original share moved about 1% against me during the delay - but I reckon that was a price worth paying for ending up where I wanted and not somewhere else... As for the 3 part bed and isa lack of more detail info by hmrc on this is painful inadequate for PI's hence why im in here talking to you 1: is bed and isa exempt from being taxed while using the full £15,000 or No. I've told you in both of my previous replies that the sale part of the bed-and-ISA package is taxed by CGT just like any other sale outside a tax shelter, and now I've told you that again in this reply. I won't tell you it again after this - there's simply no point keeping on telling you if you're not going to believe me. 2: out of £15000, £11100 is exempt using cgt allowance while the remaining is taxed even though it is going into a bed and isa. So rather pay the tax its better to put the remaining as cash from a bank account savings or cash isa transfere savings to cut down on fees and unnecessary tax claims Closer, but still no. To deal with a minor point first, the ISA and CGT allowances this tax year are £15,240 and £11,100 respectively; last tax year they were £15,000 and £11,000. You're using a mixture of the two... Much more important, the money you raise from the 'sell outside the ISA' part of the bed-and-ISA is the proceeds of the sale (minus any selling costs) but CGT pays attention to the gain. They're not the same! As an example, suppose that in this tax year, you bed-and-ISA 1,000 shares and the sale part of that sells them at £15.25 each and pays your broker a £10 commission. It therefore neatly raises the £15,240 you can subscribe to the ISA (*). If the amount you originally paid for those 1,000 shares is £4,130 or more, you've realised a gain of £11,100 or less on them and so your CGT allowance will cover it. But if the amount you originally paid for them was less than £4,130, you've realised a gain of more than £11,100 and so some CGT will be due. And also much more important than the minor muddling up of the two tax years, any other gains and losses you realise in this tax year will change that position, and you're not necessarily in control of whether you realise them: takeovers and occasionally some other major corporate actions can force you to realise gains and losses that you don't want to. The upshot is that I cannot tell you how much the capital gain or loss will be from the sell part of a bed-and-ISA that puts £15,240 into your ISA: it could be any gain from £0 up to the full £15,240, or any loss at all, depending on what you originally paid for the shares (a gain of the full £15,240 is unlikely, but possible in at least a couple of circumstances). Nor can I tell you how much that gain can safely be without risking a CGT bill, because I don't know what other gains and losses you might have to realise this tax year. (*) Things seldom work out this neatly in real life, of course! ;-) Gengulphus
gengulphus
19/4/2015
15:27
Theuniversal - for 2015/16 you are allowed to put £15,240 into your isa. It's how you obtain that £15,240 that is the issue here - it doesn't matter that you are going to put it into an isa as far as CGT is concerned. If you make more than £11,100 profit from the sale of shares, then the amount above £11,100 is subject to CGT. If you find the £15,240 down the back of your sofa, then there are no CGT considerations. I can't put it any simpler than that, I'm afraid.
largeronald
19/4/2015
14:30
Thanks gengulphus Im glad you have mentioned the 3 part of bed and isa which is what im trying to solve I've looked on the hmrc app under isa, shares and cgt it does not mentioned what you have said about bed and isa being in 3 parts....Just too clarify those three parts as I understand it it would be much simpler to just put cash in the stock isa than bed and isa and worry about the tax man... then you can buy and sell with in the isa all you want..As for the 3 part bed and isa lack of more detail info by hmrc on this is painful inadequate for PI's hence why im in here talking to you 1: is bed and isa exempt from being taxed while using the full £15,000 or2: out of £15000, £11100 is exempt using cgt allowance while the remaining is taxed even though it is going into a bed and isa. So rather pay the tax its better to put the remaining as cash from a bank account savings or cash isa transfere savings to cut down on fees and unnecessary tax claimsSorry to prolong this point.. thanks for all your replies
theuniversal
19/4/2015
10:35
theuniversal, Thanks for the response im still a little tad confused to your answer are you saying for example: that shares bought for £3500 and bed n isa (at profit) for £15000 wont be classed as part of your £11100 cgt allowance because its bed n isa. No, I'm saying that as far as CGT is concerned, you bought the shares for £3,500 and sold them for £15,000, realising a gain of £11,500 just as it would for any other purchase and sale at those prices. On its own, that gain will use up your £11,100 CGT allowance (assuming it happens in the current tax year) and leave £400 to be taxed by CGT. If you realise other gains and/or losses in the current tax year, so that it's not on its own, it will combine with them in the usual way and then the CGT allowance will be applied and CGT assessed on any remaining gains - all exactly as normal for any other gain. I.e. whether the sale makes up part of a bed-and-ISA or not makes absolutely no difference to how you are taxed. You need to tell the taxman the same details about the sale, and provide the same computations of gains/losses, as you do for any other sale. You don't need to tell him that the sale was part of a bed-and-ISA deal, and if you do he will ignore that information because it makes absolutely no difference to your CGT position. Note by the way that I couldn't tell you exactly what your CGT situation would be in my original reply because you hadn't said then what the shares had been bought for. And my first paragraph in this reply only applies if they were bought for £3,500 - if for example they were instead bought for £17,500, the sale involved in the bed-and-ISA would realise a loss of £2,500 instead of a gain of £11,500. david77, TU - the taxman doesn't want to know anything about your ISA deals. That's potentially a bit misleading. I know what you mean: as far as the taxman is concerned, the bed-and-ISA is three separate deals: sale outside the ISA, cash subscription to the ISA, purchase inside the ISA, and your statement says that he only wants you to tell him about the first of those. But for anyone thinking of the bed-and-ISA as a single deal, as theuniversal clearly is, it would incorrectly suggest the taxman doesn't want to know about any of it. Also, rather pedantically the taxman does want to know some things about the ISA deals - it's just that he wants the broker to tell him about them, not the owner of the ISA. Things like the National Insurance number of the person subscribing to an ISA and the amount of stamp duty paid on purchases within an ISA... Gengulphus
gengulphus
18/4/2015
16:50
TU - the taxman doesn't want to know anything about your ISA deals.
david77
18/4/2015
16:07
Theuniversal - if you bought the shares for £3500 in your normal dealing account and they are now worth £15000 you will show a profit of £11500 when you sell them prior to buying them again in your isa (bed and isa). That £11500 will be part of your cgt allowance - in fact it is over your allowance, assuming you haven't any losses to add to your calculations.
largeronald
18/4/2015
14:49
Largeronald I get that. . But you seem to miss what im saying before. Thanks for the reply all the same
theuniversal
18/4/2015
13:19
Theuniversal - anything you sell outside of an isa is liable to CGT once you have used any allowances. The fact that you subsequently wish to buy the same number of shares within an isa is neither here nor there.
largeronald
18/4/2015
11:29
GengulphusThanks for the response im still a little tad confused to your answer are you saying for example: that shares bought for £3500 and bed n isa (at profit) for £15000 wont be classed as part of your £11100 cgt allowance because its bed n isa.If yes to this. does this mean can still have a year to make the £11100 cgt allowance as an extra pfrofit on top of the £15000 that you bed n isa?Many thanks for your time TU
theuniversal
17/4/2015
18:38
Neither. From the tax point of view, bed-and-ISAing is a sale of the shares outside the ISA plus transferring the proceeds into the ISA as a subscription plus a purchase inside the ISA, and there are no special tax interactions between those three parts - the only special interactions are things the broker does, like pushing it through quickly to minimise the chance of price movements against you between the sale and the purchase, and maybe giving you a reduced commission compared with separate trades. As a disposal outside a tax shelter, the sale creates a capital gain or loss for CGT purposes just as though it was on its own; the other two parts don't do anything CGTwise because they are a sterling cash transfer and a trade inside an ISA respectively. So you work out the gain or loss (*) on the sale part and total it up with your other gains and losses for your CGT calculations just like any other sale, and the CGT allowance comes off that total just as it always does. (*) Or in some cases, more than one gain or loss - e.g. if you partially repurchase outside the ISA within the next 30 days, the sale will be partially matched to that purchase under the 30-day rule, and the rest matched to the old 'Section 104 pool'. Gengulphus
gengulphus
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