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Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Capital Gearing Trust Plc LSE:CGT London Ordinary Share GB0001738615 ORD 25P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  -30.00 -0.66% 4,540.00 4,550.00 4,570.00 4,540.00 4,540.00 4,540.00 19,187 16:35:09
Industry Sector Turnover (m) Profit (m) EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap (m)
Equity Investment Instruments 7.8 6.4 59.1 76.8 553

Capital Gearing Share Discussion Threads

Showing 7751 to 7774 of 8325 messages
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DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
20/3/2014
09:44
I wrote the calculator on www.stonebanks.co.uk The average price of the remaining pool never changes by selling - it will only change if you buy more shares at a higher or lower price and then it won't change by much unless the qty bought is significant compare with your pool qty.
david77
20/3/2014
09:42
Why don't you enter your trades into one of the calculator programs - see links in header.
miata
20/3/2014
09:33
understood, I will try to explain...... Here is the principal behind the formula I use in Excel to calculate my net CGT gain/loss to report to the I.R. Example: sell 74,544 shares shares sold as %age of total = 74,544*4,935,247=1.51% 1.51% of Cost figure = GBP 259,565.68*1.51%=GBP 3,919.44 shares valued at 1p, so GBP 745.44 received. GBP 745.44 minus GBP 3,919.44 = loss of GBP (3,174) Hopefully you agree that. What I don't follow is in my 104 holdings list of trades the average price remains static throughout at 5.2594p never changing, so it will never show a profit until my selling price goes higher than this (all excluding charges etc). My actual average price is now a little over 1p, so how can it be correct that the average price in my spreadsheet as excerpt below remains at 5.2594p through each trade detail to the end of my trade list?
twix386
20/3/2014
08:51
twix386, I'm afraid I only do this sort of stuff on a bulletin-board basis, not by email. No exceptions, sorry - I'll look at anything posted and respond if I feel I can usefully do so, but emails are out. Gengulphus
gengulphus
20/3/2014
07:12
Thanks Gengulphus, For now at least I am going to take it that there is no new methodology I need to adopt that actually changes the existing effective procedure and so all in S104 pool, ignoring the deferred shares.
twix386
19/3/2014
23:54
twix386, Your link http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cgt/shares/co-reorg.htm#3 does indeed give the right general procedure - what you're dealing with is a share split rather than a rights issue or bonus issue, but it does involve you ending up with shares of different classes and the same general method of calculation is used. There are two different steps to the procedure - a reorganisation of the company's shares by splitting them into Ordinary shares of 0.1p and Deferred shares of 0.9p, and then the open offer in which you can buy more Ordinary shares of 0.1p. To deal with the reorganisation, step 1 in the link says you work out the values of your new holdings. The value of the new holding of Ordinary shares of 0.1p is your original number of shares times the market price of such a share. I'm not certain whether that means the market price on the first day of trading after the split, or the market price when you sell the shares - AIM shares have some strange rules about when they count as "listed" and when not - but as it happens, it's not actually going to matter. The value of the new holding of Deferred shares is zero: they are carefully designed to have no conceivable market value while still actually making them technically shares in the company, by giving them no right to income, no right to capital until the Ordinary shares have each received a preposterous amount, no right to vote or speak at shareholder meetings, and just to provide a back stop for all of that, the company can forcibly transfer them away from shareholders for nothing or essentially nothing. There's also nothing saying they're going to be admitted to trading anywhere, so there will be no convenient way to trade them even if you did for some reason want to... So the new holding of Ordinary shares of 0.1p has some positive value and the new holding of Deferred shares of 0.9p has zero value. Step 2 in the link therefore says that 100% of your original cost goes to the new holding of Ordinary shares of 0.1p and 0% goes to the new holding of Deferred shares of 0.9p, whatever the market price of the former turns out to be. As a result, the effect of the reorganisation is basically that your new Ordinary shares inherit the costs of your old Ordinary shares, and you can forget about the Deferred shares: they have no cost allocated to them and you will never get anything for them, so your gain or loss on them will turn out to be a big fat zero. (Essentially, the Deferred shares are a technical device to get around a company law restriction, that the company cannot issue shares at below nominal value - they get around it by diverting 90% of the nominal value into shares of zero market value. The CGT calculations work on market value, not nominal value... About the only real effect of the nominal value of shares on shareholders is that messing around with it like this requires the company to get shareholder approval!) After the reorganisation, there's the open offer to deal with taxwise. I think that's dealt with as it would be for a rights issue, with the extra shares and their costs essentially enhancing the S104 pool asset rather than counting as a separate purchase. That's in accordance with what http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/helpsheets/hs285.pdf says: "The basic CGT rules that apply to share reorganisations are: • the issue of any new shares is not treated as an acquisition • the loss or alteration of any old shares is not treated as a disposal. Because a share reorganisation is not treated as an acquisition, any new shares of the same class that you receive are added to the existing holding of shares. ... Because you are not treated as acquiring the new shares, the same day rule and the bed and breakfasting rule (see the section 'How to identify the shares disposed of' in Helpsheet 284 Shares and Capital Gains Tax), do not apply." I am however not 100% certain that an open offer counts as a share reorganisation, especially where excess applications are concerned, so it's possible that it should instead be treated as a separate buy... I should add that it only makes any difference if the same-day or bed-and-breakfasting (or "30-day") rule applies to the resulting buy - otherwise the buy just gets added into the S104 pool anyway. And of course, it's not very easy for the same-day or 30-day rules to apply for a class of share (Ordinary shares of 0.1p) that has only just been issued! The net result is that in almost all circumstances (and quite possibly in all of them), you end up with a S104 pool of all your Ordinary shares of 0.1p, bought for the total of your original costs and anything extra you've spent on the open offer. And in theory also a S104 pool of all your Deferred shares of 0.9p, but as indicated above, you will never make either a gain or a loss on them! Gengulphus
gengulphus
19/3/2014
17:49
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/tiin/2012/tiin1104.pdf
miata
19/3/2014
17:05
Has the allowance increase?
smurfy2001
19/3/2014
08:55
I have a question regarding the recent open offer and capital reorganisation on Vialogy (AIM) The Classification has changed from VIALOGY ORD GBP0.01 to VIALOGY ORD GBP0.001 Well that's my understanding although Hargreaves Lansdown state not. Does this reorganisation and sub division details below constitute a class change? "The Directors propose to subdivide each Existing Ordinary Share into one new ordinary share of 0.1p and one deferred share of 0.9p. The rights attaching to the Ordinary Shares and the Deferred Shares are summarised in the circular to shareholders. Such subdivision would result in an issued share capital of 1,039,640,244 Ordinary Shares and 1,039,640,244 Deferred Shares. Shares to be issued under existing options and warrants will reflect the Capital Reorganisation." In doing my Tax Returns I opted to do a trial run yesterday on the same basis as in past years. However, my Excel spreadsheet ended up having a final Cost figure total that was way off and in looking around for a reason I concluded it was due to a change in Classification as refered to here http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cgt/shares/co-reorg.htm#3 namely "Bonus issues and rights issues of shares of a different class". OR is it of the same class? Either way do the previous CGT rules I have used - prior to this rights issue (open offer) - now change in line with applying different rights issue rules as per this link? target='window'>http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cgt/shares/co-reorg.htm#3 I would also like to check this a valid reason for my Cost figure anomaly? The shares applied for in the Open Offer (quite a few along with market buys) would all have been on new 0.001p classification effective from 27/1/14. Otherwise my question is what do I need to do on my spreadsheet to take this into account. My assumption is that I would need to divide the Cost calculation by 10 for trades done on/after new Classification came into effect (that would indeed get me a reasonable ball park total Cost figure at least to c/fwd). Then for sales that I need to report on, follow the I.R. guidance rules (above link) of working out the value of shares in each of the two classifications for this tax year and apply ratio to Cost etc. I have only 2 sales. One a 30 day and then a big one where I moved shares held into ISA last year and realised loss (104 Holdings). TIA
twix386
13/3/2014
23:40
Slight correction: If it has actually been dissolved (check the exact company name on the Companies House website) then for CGT purposes you actually disposed of the shares for zero value on the date of dissolution - an asset ceasing to exist counts as a disposal. Don't make a negligible value claim for it in that case - just state the facts about the shares ceasing to exist because of dissolution of the company. In the usually-more-likely case that the company is still in administration, a negligible value claim is probably reasonable - the exceptions are if the administrators have said there is likely to be a return to shareholders, or if it's too early for them to have said either that there is likely to be one or that there isn't. Gengulphus
gengulphus
13/3/2014
20:33
show as sold for zero value - and explain on your tax return that your are claiming that the share has negligible value and say why. I am not qualified to give advice
david77
13/3/2014
13:14
Hi, I am using CGT calculator.com How do I input a share which has been dissolved or liquidated as I want to claim the full loss made on share? Thanks rednutter
red nutter
13/3/2014
11:15
Ty Miata :)
mdara
13/3/2014
08:32
1) Yes. 2) No. 3) N/A.
miata
12/3/2014
22:56
I am sure if I were to go back over 679 posts I would find the answer to my question. I would appreciate it however if someone would be kind enough to save me the effort. I am resident in the UK. I have a loss in a share held in an ordinary taxable account. I dispose of it on the 1st and purchase same share in an ISA on the 1st. Is the loss deductible? Does the ISA purchase create any difficulty? If so is there any way to circumvent the difficulty? Ty in advance for any helpful replies.
mdara
26/2/2014
20:58
Thanks for the reply Miata, I'm doubtful at this moment I could truly suggest they are of negligible value, as supposedly they are in dispute on assets - too long a story; thanks for responding though.
riggerbeautz
26/2/2014
18:25
676, You can claim the loss on your tax return. Its not on the negligible value list yet (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cgt/negvalist.htm#e ) so your tax inspector will (eventually) give you a decision. http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/svmanualnew/svm107150.htm
miata
26/2/2014
18:17
Gengulphus - Thanks for that detailed reply, really appreciate it, very helpful, learnt a lot from that.
apsoo
26/2/2014
17:18
Gengulphus/Miata you have probably been asked this question before, but I hold a few shares in EEL, no stranger to these boards as a delisted company, but still in limbo existence several years on. My shares are held in a nominee account that I also have significant profits to bank. So just pondering is it possible to write these off firstly against a tax gain? Either this year or next tax year as I'm fortunate enough to have good profits to bank. Secondly, if the company was to relist, what would happen to my holding? Could I be responsible in any way, say how would it work if the parent company suddenly made an offer to shareholders and I'd already written them off. Never really looked into it before as always the patient type, but if I could write off the purchase costs, it might help me bank a few more profits this year or next.
riggerbeautz
25/2/2014
12:05
Gengulphus thanks for your reply on 666
red nutter
25/2/2014
09:49
APSOO, Say I purchase shares up to the value of the allowance of £11,520.00. The shares have moved up in a short space of time and I wish to take profits. I sell the lot and bank the profit. I then wish to make another investment...could I therefore reload my ISA with shares up to the allowance of £11,520.00 even though I am still in the same tax year and could I keep repeating this and still have no tax to pay ? Yes - but you can do more than that. You can use all the proceeds of the sale to buy further shares in the ISA, not just £11,520 of them (though the flip side of that is that if you were instead to sell at a loss, you could only use the proceeds of the loss - you couldn't make them back up to £11,520 with extra cash). The one thing you don't want to do in that situation is withdraw the cash from the ISA, because once withdrawn, it can only be replaced by subscribing it back to the ISA, and that can only be done up to your ISA allowance each tax year. I say this because of the phrase "bank the profit" that you used - I think you mean it figuratively, but if by any chance you literally mean withdraw the cash into your bank account, don't do that with any cash you would like to invest in further shares. As a general rule, only withdraw cash from ISAs if you need it for non-investment purposes or if you want to invest it in an asset that cannot be held in an ISA - and if it's the latter, ask yourself first whether that asset is really so much better than ISA-eligible shares that it's worth giving up the tax protection in order to invest in it. More generally, think of an equities ISA as a 'box' that can hold both cash and shares, and that hides them from most taxation (*). You can move cash into the box, but only up to the ISA allowance each tax year. You cannot move shares into the box, except in some special circumstances to do with a couple of types of employee share scheme. You can freely move cash and shares out of the box, but doing so does not give you the right to put them back in, so you don't want to do it without good reason. And all buys and sells happen entirely within the box - they're just changing cash inside the box into shares inside the box and vice versa. Obviously that means your broker is putting the shares you bought and the cash proceeds of your sales into the box. That's allowed - the restrictions in the last paragraph are about what you can do, not about what your broker can do as part of putting your share trades into effect. Similarly, all dividend payments, takeovers, demergers, rights issues and other corporate actions happen entirely within the box - in particular, dividend payments are not a case of you putting cash into the box and so don't count against your ISA allowance. Some types of corporate action do however have a consequence on things moving in and out of the box - it's not particularly common, but it can happen that a corporate action such as a demerger puts shares into the ISA that are not allowed in ISAs. If that happens, your broker should tell you that you need to sell them within 30 days, and that if you don't, they will be transferred out of the ISA into your personal ownership as though you had asked to withdraw them from the ISA. (*) Exceptions are stamp duty on share purchases and a straight 20% tax on interest earnt on the cash. Furthermore, could I continue trading in my usual non ISA account and keep the yearly CGT allowance and therefore only declare these trades ? Yes. By the way, it's not just that you could only declare those trades: you must only declare those trades. You're not allowed to declare trades inside an ISA for CGT even if you want to - in particular, if you sell at a loss inside an ISA, you cannot claim and use that loss to reduce gains outside. And in case you're wondering, you can withdraw the shares from the ISA and sell them outside to make the sale visible to CGT, but that doesn't make their loss of value while they were inside the ISA usable for CGT. That's because CGT treats shares withdrawn from an ISA as having been bought for their market value on the day they were withdrawn, not for the price that was actually paid when they were bought inside the ISA. Gengulphus
gengulphus
24/2/2014
14:21
Ok, thanks MIATA
handykart
24/2/2014
08:42
No, claim it on your return.
miata
24/2/2014
01:56
Hello, I have some shares in a company called Orchid developments (OCH). It delisted from AIM on 15/1/2013.Value is now Zero in my share account. Do I have to wait for some sort of confirmation, to say the shares have no value, before I put it on my tax return as a loss? Thanks in advance.
handykart
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