Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Capital Gearing Trust Plc LSE:CGT London Ordinary Share GB0001738615 ORD 25P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  -10.00 -0.23% 4,430.00 4,410.00 4,440.00 4,430.00 4,380.00 4,430.00 26,402 16:26:32
Industry Sector Turnover (m) Profit (m) EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap (m)
Equity Investment Instruments 4.7 3.7 51.1 86.7 498

Capital Gearing Share Discussion Threads

Showing 7676 to 7698 of 8275 messages
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DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
25/1/2014
20:08
Gengulphus thanks for your answer , they were GKP shares , I had made a good profit on them , will send it in quick and hope I don't get stung , cheers very much .
nestoframpers
23/1/2014
07:50
bohemian13, Quick question - Are dividends from jersey based companies taxed in same way as UK based companies ? Quick answer: Strictly speaking, no - assuming you're talking about a purely-UK-based taxpayer, they're taxed by the combination of Jersey tax law and UK tax law, rather than by UK tax law alone. Less strictly speaking, it may well be that the combination of Jersey tax law and UK tax law produces the same outcome as UK tax law alone would have done. If so, you would probably regard the answer as being "yes" for practical purposes. But I'm afraid my knowledge of tax law pretty much stops at the borders of the UK - about all I can do is point you at the Foreign supplementary pages of the tax return ( http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/sa106.pdf ) and their accompanying notes ( http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/worksheets/sa106-notes.pdf ), and add that searching the latter for "Jersey" does indicate that a number of special rules apply to it... The other thing I would suggest is trying the general TAX thread http://uk.advfn.com/cmn/fbb/thread.php3?id=14977168 - this thread is specific to CGT and so you might stand a better chance of finding someone knowledgeable about foreign income tax issues there. Gengulphus
gengulphus
23/1/2014
07:31
nestoframpers, I sold £11000 worth of AIM shares to buy in a ISA do I have to pay CGT on that sale ? Sorry, too little information to be able to tell. First off, you don't actually say whether the shares you sold were in an ISA (or other tax shelter) before you sold them - that information is needed to answer the question, because if they were in a tax shelter, they'll be exempt from CGT. Otherwise they're probably subject to CGT. My guess is that you mean that you sold the AIM shares outside the ISA in order to subscribe the money to the ISA and repurchase the same type of AIM share inside. If so, the sale is probably subject to CGT - but that answer does depend on my guesswork about what you meant, not what you actually said! Secondly, there might conceivably be some special features of the shares that make them exempt from CGT even outside a tax shelter, which is why I only say "probably subject to CGT" rather than "subject to CGT". If there aren't any such features, then the sale outside the ISA is subject to CGT. The fact (assuming it is a fact!) that you intended to subscribe the sale proceeds to an ISA and buy shares inside it is not such a feature, regardless of whether the shares bought are the same type of shares. Thirdly, the sale being subject to CGT does not necessarily mean you will have to pay CGT on it. You won't have to pay CGT on it if either of the following is the case: * you didn't realise a gain on the sale (the fact that it produced £11k doesn't tell me anything about the gain or loss you realised other than that if it was a gain, it was no more than £11k); * you realised a gain on the sale but that gain is covered by your CGT allowance and/or losses you've realised on other sales. There are probably a number of other circumstances that could result in a realised gain that is subject to CGT not actually causing CGT to have to be paid, e.g. ones caused by CGT reliefs that apply in special circumstances. But those two are the main ones. Gengulphus
gengulphus
22/1/2014
14:42
Quick question - Are dividends from jersey based companies taxed in same way as UK based companies ? Thanks
bohemian13
22/1/2014
14:37
I sold £11000 worth of AIM shares to buy in a ISA do I have to pay CGT on that sale ?
nestoframpers
20/1/2014
09:39
Liquid Millionaire, It's a standard B/C share scheme (also often known as just a B share scheme), in which the company splits off some extra shares that either get bought back by the company or pay a special dividend and then become worthless. Both give the same amount of cash - the only difference is that that cash is the proceeds of a sale for the first option (making CGT the relevant tax) and dividend income for the second (making Income Tax the relevant tax). The splitting-off of the extra shares also has CGT consequences. For investors who are only subject to UK taxation, shares held in SIPPs, ISAs, CTFs and any other tax shelters that might exist (I'm not certain whether I've kept track!) are completely exempt from both Income Tax and CGT, so as far as they're concerned, they just receive the cash from either option, with no tax consequences. I.e. the option chosen really doesn't matter at all to those investors (and those shares - if they have other shares outside tax shelters, it might well matter for those other shares). For investors who are subject to foreign taxation, whether it makes a difference is going to depend on which countries' taxation the investor is subject to - so there is a very big range of possibilities, none of which I can really help people with as I don't know other countries' tax systems! Gengulphus
gengulphus
18/1/2014
22:25
AVS are shortly to pay a large special dividend and are offering for tax planning reasons a CAPITAL and a INCOME option. My AVS are held via my SIPP so the question is simply which option should i go for or does it really not matter at all?
liquid millionaire
18/1/2014
14:43
I'm afraid that I have discovered that I have spouted a lot of complete nonsense in my past posts about the CGT effects of the income option of the Vodafone deal. Specifically, everything I've said about losses being realised on the Deferred shares is wrong - no such losses will be realised - and as a result everything I've said about using negligible value claims to bring forward the effective date of such losses is also wrong: such negligible value claims would be at best pointless. What I've said about realised losses on the Deferred shares and negligible value claims was correct about past B share schemes I've dealt with, so what I said about them in my posts before the shareholder circular came out in December was reasonable speculation based on past experience of such schemes. I'm afraid that I then missed a crucial sentence in the shareholder circular until today... All I can do is apologise for the error and ask everyone to ignore what I've said in the past about realising losses on Deferred shares and using negligible value claims - and if you've done tax planning based on it, redo that planning! About the nature of the error, the general principles I set out before about apportioning the base cost of the original holding between the resulting holdings according to their values at the end of the first day of trading after the scheme comes into effect are correct. But there is an important technical point I missed, which is that the conversion of the C shares into Deferred shares happens on the same day as the scheme coming into effect and so has already happened by the time you take those end-of-first-trading-day values. So it's the value of the Deferred shares that is used in the apportionment calculation, not the value of the C shares - and since the value of the Deferred shares is zero, that means that the base cost apportioned to the Deferred shares is also zero. So what happens when the company eventually redeems the Deferred shares for nothing is a disposal of shares which have zero base cost for zero disposal proceeds - a complete CGT non-event. Much tidier than what I thought was the case, in fact - but definitely different from it! None of this will affect people who choose the capital option or who hold their shares in an ISA, SIPP or other tax shelter. Unless I've missed something while looking, I don't think this affects anything I've said in the past on this thread. But it does affect some things I've said on the other CGT thread and on the TMF site, so it seems worth posting here as well to try to make certain anyone affected knows... AFAIAA, the technical timing point about the conversion to Deferred shares happening before the end-of-first-trading-day valuations does not apply to any other similar schemes that I remember commenting on, by the way. I.e. treat what I'm saying in this post as very specific to the Vodafone scheme. Gengulphus
gengulphus
18/1/2014
13:55
I'm afraid that I have discovered that I have spouted a lot of complete nonsense in my past posts about the CGT effects of the income option of the Vodafone deal. Specifically, everything I've said about losses being realised on the Deferred shares is wrong - no such losses will be realised - and as a result everything I've said about using negligible value claims to bring forward the effective date of such losses is also wrong: such negligible value claims would be at best pointless. What I said about realised losses on the Deferred shares and negligible value claims was correct about past B share schemes I've dealt with, so what I said about them in my posts before the shareholder circular came out in December was reasonable speculation based on past experience of such schemes. I'm afraid that I then missed a crucial sentence in the shareholder circular until today... All I can do is apologise for the error and ask everyone to ignore what I've said in the past about realising losses on Deferred shares and using negligible value claims - and if you've done tax planning based on it, redo that planning! About the nature of the error, the general principles I set out before about apportioning the base cost of the original holding between the resulting holdings according to their values at the end of the first day of trading after the scheme comes into effect are correct. But there is an important technical point I missed, which is that the conversion of the C shares into Deferred shares happens on the same day as the scheme coming into effect and so has already happened by the time you take those end-of-first-trading-day values. So it's the value of the Deferred shares that is used in the apportionment calculation, not the value of the C shares - and since the value of the Deferred shares is zero, that means that the base cost apportioned to the Deferred shares is also zero. So what happens when the company eventually redeems the Deferred shares for nothing is a disposal of shares which have zero base cost for zero disposal proceeds - a complete CGT non-event. Much tidier than what I thought was the case, in fact - but definitely different from it! None of this will affect people who choose the capital option or who hold their shares in an ISA, SIPP or other tax shelter. I will be editing my past posts about the CGT treatment of the Vodafone scheme to include a warning that they are incorrect in this respect, with a link to this post. Finally, I should add that I have checked the shareholder circulars for the other B share schemes I have commented on in the last 100 posts on this board (about 9 months' worth), which are Soco International's and PV CrystalOx's. Neither of them does the payment of the income option and conversion into Deferred shares before the end-of-first-trading-day valuation and both of them say that part of the base cost will end up with the Deferred shares and thus be realised as a loss when the Deferred shares are disposed of (and by implication, also when there is a deemed disposal caused by a successful negligible value claim). I.e. this mistake is specific to the Vodafone scheme, not more general. Gengulphus
gengulphus
17/1/2014
16:08
Well there's my weekend reading!---much indebted to you both--Gengulphus and David for time and effort.
williemanjaro
17/1/2014
15:56
Hello!---could someone please remind me. Say I sell a share in the market and make a loss.(Fully owned share--non-spread bet or cfd ) Now technically if I buy that same share back within a 30 day period I would lose the right to claim the full losses upon that sale? Do I have this correct and is there anyone here who could just remind me of how this equation plays out? Technically, it's not that you lose the right to claim a loss you make from your original purchase, but that you're now making a loss (or gain) from your repurchase instead of the original purchase. You still have the right to claim a loss from your original purchase, but only when you make a sale that the CGT rules treat as coming from the shares bought by that original purchase! The crucial thing to remember is that the CGT rules do not care in the slightest which purchase the shares you sold actually came from. Basically, that's because in many situations, it's impossible to tell which purchase that is. Rather than saying "use the purchase they actually came from if you can prove it was that purchase; otherwise here's a set of rules to decide which purchase you should treat it as", they just say "here's a set of rules to be used in all cases to decide which purchase to treat it as - use these rules even if you can prove they actually came from some other purchase". The current set of rules (which date from the start of the 2008/9 tax year - things get more complex if you go back to before then) basically say to treat the shares sold as coming from: * Highest priority: shares bought the same day * 2nd priority: shares bought in the following 30 days * 3rd priority: shares bought in the past * Lowest priority: shares bought more than 30 days in the future (this is mainly for completeness - you won't encounter it unless you go short on actual shares, and note that the usual ways of shorting shares involve investing in derivatives such as CFDs rather than in actual shares). So if e.g. you buy 2k shares, then on a later date you sell those 2k shares, the immediate assumption is that there won't be any purchases on the same day as the sale or the next 30 days, so that the CGT rules will have to settle for the 3rd priority, and so it is assumed that you'll realise the loss (or gain) from the original purchase. But that's only an assumption: it's not until (and if) you actually fail to make any purchases on the same day or the next 30 days that the realised loss becomes definite. If instead you buy 1k shares 10 days after the sale, that assumption becomes invalid, and instead the assumption is now that you'll make no further purchases in the 30 days after the sale. On that assumption, the sale now gets matched to the 1k shares repurchased and 1k of the 2k shares originally purchased - and that's still just an assumption until actually you fail to make any further purchases in the 30 days following the sale. (For what happens if you do make such purchases, see below.) That priority list is only the top-level picture, and there are further details needed to get the full picture: * First, if you make multiple purchases on the same day, treat them as a single purchase of all the shares for their combined costs, and similarly if you make multiple sales on the same day, treat them as a single sale of all the shares for their combined proceeds and costs. Do this as the very first step - it ensures that you never get a question of which purchase or sale on a particular date should be dealt with first. * Secondly, if there are multiple purchases within either of the two 'future' categories, give earlier purchases priority over later purchases. For instance, if in the above example you make a further purchase of 3k shares 20 days after the sale, the sale is then matched to the 1k shares of the first repurchase and 1k of the 3k shares bought in the second repurchase (and that cannot be changed by any further purchases in the remainder of the 30-day period). But for the 'past' category (3rd priority in the above list), treat all the past purchases as a single purchase (sometimes known as a 'Section 104 pool') of all the shares for their combined costs, on an indeterminate past date. (This incidentally is the big change that happened at the start of the 2008/2009 tax year. For about ten years before that, some CGT rules needed to know the purchase date of the shares sold, so past purchases were not combined in this way and the rule was instead that you gave more recent purchases priority over less recent ones. And before those 10 years, the rules were different again, didn't need to know the purchase date and past purchases were combined... There may well be even more history before that, but that's as far back as my experience and knowledge go!) * Thirdly, there is a general rule that once definitely matched to a sale, a purchase is taken out of further consideration. E.g. extending the above example yet further, suppose the investor sells all the 4k shares now owned and doesn't buy them back on the same day or in the following 30 days. All purchases are now in the past and there are enough to completely match the 4k sale, so that sale is completely matched under the 3rd priority rule above. Were it not for this general rule, the past purchases would be counted as the 2k original purchase, the 1k first repurchase and the 3k second repurchase after the first sale. As it is, however, all the shares bought in the first repurchase and 1k of those bought in the second have already been matched by the first sale, so have been removed from consideration - and so the past purchases that should actually be counted are the 2k original purchase and the remaining 2k shares from the second repurchase. * Finally, in order to know which purchases have already been matched and so taken out of consideration, you may need to know the order in which to process things. This isn't quite as simple as one might expect: first, apply the top priority 'same day' matching rule to all purchases it applies to, for all days; then go through the sales in date order, matching them (or what's left of them after a same-day matching that didn't supply all the shares sold) under the other priority rules. Or put another way: earlier sales usually get matched before later sales, but matching a sale to a same-day purchase trumps that. I should say that I don't intend the above as a replacement for the CGT calculators - they're far less error-prone than doing it by hand even if one has a good understanding of the rules, and as well as covering the current rules, they also cover the earlier rules and how to transition from them to the current rules. What it may be useful for is instead (a) helping understanding of the calculator output; (b) acquiring at least a broad-brush general understanding of what is liable to happen if you repurchase within 30 days without having to resort to the calculators each time. Gengulphus
gengulphus
17/1/2014
12:48
Hello!---could someone please remind me. Say I sell a share in the market and make a loss.(Fully owned share--non-spread bet or cfd ) Now technically if I buy that same share back within a 30 day period I would lose the right to claim the full losses upon that sale? Do I have this correct and is there anyone here who could just remind me of how this equation plays out? Thanking you in advance and apologies for forgetting the details here!
williemanjaro
13/1/2014
19:22
Director buying http://uk.advfn.com/news/UKREG/2014/article/60645146
praipus
10/1/2014
10:48
I think the FTSE is down over the last 15 years
sleepy
09/1/2014
23:13
But: On December 31st, 1964, the Dow Jones Industrial Average stood at 874. On December 31st, 1981, it stood at 875.
elmfield
08/1/2014
10:38
Geordy2 - If you've only got deals in Encore Oil, then I would show those deals and leave it until the end of the tax year. You can then simply add a note to the effect that these are now PMO shares, and show new quantity, total costs as before, and new cost/share as total costs/new qty. I use the Stonebanks calculator. The bottom box gives current holdings. If you run the prog after the close on 5 April, then you can copy that box to start a new file for the following tax year. I am told that that is not right, but that is what I will do. I am not qualified to give advice.
david77
07/1/2014
18:54
Many thanks for your wisdom Gengulphus. Ali.
investali
07/1/2014
18:27
I have used your CGT Calculator ( link at top of page) for several years and am really happy with it. I need advice for this year as i have a share which was bought out under an arrangement and swapped for shares in newco therefore avoiding CGT ie it was not a buyout. How would i represent this transaction in the CGT calculator and subsequently in my self assessment tax return. The shares in question are the scheme whereby PMO aquired Encore Oil. Thanks in Advance Alby
geordy2
07/1/2014
12:20
Quite right...thnx
skyship
07/1/2014
09:05
Topvest - I believe you are a successful long-term investor; and you may well be right. I am however reminded of that broker/fund-manager Peter(?) Dye, Robert(?) Dye, something DYE....who was an arch bear for 10-20 years during the great bull markets of 1980-2000. I forget the story, but something along the lines of he retired in 2007 - the year before the crash of 2008! CGT has great management, but they should have adapted their investment approach in the light of over-riding macroeconomic action. Investment management surely requires a degree of flexibility.
skyship
06/1/2014
19:27
Miata - many thanks for prompt reply ! Got this thread via the Zulu one. The adv was by an organisation called MarketView that I stumbled upon. As you say it is an EIS not a general exemption. I did write to the HMRC but no response ! Became a "serious" investor only in last few years, as savings rates declined,and I headed to retirement. Didnt pay much attention to the tax situation, used ISA's but only a small SIPP. Amazed to have made a 100% gain in last 18 months which puts me well into the CGT catchment situation. Ah well !
puku
06/1/2014
18:58
Well I'm happy to hold. They will not out-perform in these markets. They will when the market takes a beating which it is bound to do at some point.
topvest
06/1/2014
18:54
Gilston - in spite of their tawdry performance CGT still on a 4%+ NAV PREMIUM!!! They have hopelessly misread the effects of QE on global markets - happily for them this is a closed fund so no redemptions and they can still draw their fees. For shareholders it is as clear as day - sell - move on. CGT may well have its day as a sound protector of capital; but in the meantime most shareholders need to make profits, so get out. Buy a stock with upside potential and buy a little gold on the side. REC: Buy ACD - a liquidating hedge fund. Sp 101.5p offered. NAV 109.31p. Likely liquidation price in Q1'15 - 112p-115p. GRY inc current divis @ 112p payout = 11.97%. At 115p = 14.33%. As you would expect, much info on the ACD thread...
skyship
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