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[henryatkin] 29/5/2008 09:28

Fives , I was scalping the price cutting above and below the T/D line.

I went long at the break above previous hig at 9.04 and closed into the consolidation at 9.22

[fivesboy] 29/5/2008 09:20

Henry,

Clarification: 8.18 entry because period close was above close of all previous periods since 8.05?

What was rational for going short @ 8.33. No CCI yet, both MA signals were in long?

[henryatkin] 29/5/2008 08:47

Closed at breakeven and staying out for now.

[henryatkin] 29/5/2008 08:35

closed at 08.33 and went short - one position

[henryatkin] 29/5/2008 08:27

I have an open long trade from 08.18 at 6095 one the one position. This will get you use to seeking out the 20 period breaks as well.

[henryatkin] 29/5/2008 08:25

Fives - I think you will find it a big help if you follow the last paragraph of my previous post. It can be very frustrating if you wait four or five hours without a good trend. At least you should see some profits come in whilst you get a feel for the market.

[fivesboy] 29/5/2008 08:03

I made my post before I saw your post #55. Thanks for additional info. Very good.

[fivesboy] 29/5/2008 07:35

Henry, you're doing great as a teacher. We can only understand how you use these tools by using them ourselves, asking you questions and learning from you and our own mistakes.

Sorry if I inferred I was trading all signals. I am just analysing all potential signals to see how they pan out. I'll keep it to myself if you prefer. But at one point you did concur that it is difficult to pick and choose the signals so I am seeing what happens if you do trade more mechanically. I should have made that clear in my previous post.

[henryatkin] 29/5/2008 07:32

Would have/should have trades:

08.45 20 period break to downside T/D - trend failed
08.46 '' '' '' '' 20/20 - trend failed
09.53 CCI signaled short. Trade to risky. Only 4 poits to previous low and 20 points to previous high. The signal was near the bottom of the trading range.
10.37 20 period breakout to upside with confirmation of trading range resistance having been broken. All three positions.
11.35 20 period breakout to the downside. M/A's only.
12.37 20 period breakout to the upside all three positions
no trading between 1.30 and 2.00
14.00 20 period breakout (actually at 13.59) to downside . MA's only
14.22 CCI only short the existing trend.

NB. at the top and bottom of the last 40 point trend was a classic Ross trend start/finish signal.

I have previously said that d/t is giving very simmilar signals as 20/20 and so I am loosing some diversification (I only changed to this a short while ago). I think the answer might be to drop 20/20 and replace it with a convincing price break above or below the D/T lines (not to be confused with the MA crossover). This will produce profits in the range trading periods but reduce returns from the big trends. I think it may make life a little easier for getting to recognise when you are in or out of a trading range. Keep using support, resistance and trend lines. Keep focused on the breakouts. Be flexible - dont short near the bottom of a trading range or go long near the top, wait for the break etc. Let the trades come to you.

[henryatkin] 28/5/2008 22:00

I must confess I'm not the best of teachers - never have been. There seems to be to much enthasis "the system" rather than "the tools". The job in hand is to find trends and avoid as many trend failures as posible. The basis of each trade is a breakout which mostly is 20 period horizontal line but could be from a triangle line so long as it has 20 periods. This should be accompanied by the CCI signal and/or the MA's. Between 08.30 and 16.30 I found eight entry signals - some for all three positions and a couple for only CCI or only MA's.
I will post details tomorrow.

[fivesboy] 28/5/2008 18:05

Right,

I have totted up Henry's three settings for trades from around 8:40 until 17:01. The latter is possible cos of sbets that were started before Uk close.

This is assuming all trades taken at point defined in method and also counter-traded immediately and includes spreads. I.e. sell taken at the same time as closing a buy, except in the case of CCI where there is often a close before the next trade sets up.

T/D: 12 trades net +35, 20/20: 12 trades + 34, CCI: 10 trades -38. This does not take into account Henry's notes on consolidation etc which I found hard to implement except a couple of times today where there were definite breakouts. The saving grace here was the nice long trend in the early afternoon. I think Henry is right, once you have one of these in the bag run, as all trades after it resulted in a net loss of -72 points so would have over 100 points if you'd gone flat after big win. All part of the psychology of it.

I am going to try and do this for most days just to see how things pan out, if one method is more reliable than another. At the moment I am finding the CCI does not work as well as momentum seems to be light. Don't know what your thoughts are on it Henry.

[henryatkin] 28/5/2008 17:09

X ...pivot lines are an option on the CMC & Ig trading station. No settings to put in once you load ot and click "save layout" it will always be loaded for you. The pivot lines themself are the most powerful of intraday tools. Very strong support and resistance they act like a magnet or a brick wall.

Re E v $. CCI80 is usually better. other settings the same. If you are an early bird 07.00 to 08.00 is very productive. Seems to be a lot of price adjustment going on then. It can go a bit quiet with no news around but I prefer it to ftse most days. It does take about three times your margin than ftse I think.

[xanbea] 28/5/2008 16:39

Also Henry, did you see my email query re €v$?

[xanbea] 28/5/2008 16:36

re 47

Ok, that makes sense. Cheers

[xanbea] 28/5/2008 16:34

Henry

Can you clarify pivot lines for me please?

Ta

[henryatkin] 28/5/2008 16:33

X ... I forgot - I said to fives earlier, don't take too much notice of the SMI. I don't have it loaded all the time. I only use it if I have doubts or want confirmation of a week ranging market. If the prices are swinging up and down more that 25 points I never look at it. The price chart is always first priority. The CCI 100x is a case of swings and roundabouts the whole idea to to catch and stay in the long trends which the zero cross does. By all means experiment. You may find it works better for you to come out of the long trends at brief consolidations and re-enter on the breakout. In that case you can close on the 100 cross.

[henryatkin] 28/5/2008 16:26

X/smarm.... you are correct in your reading of the chart. These were not actual trades - just paper trades. After the struggle at the pivot level at around 11.25 I closed my long trade and packed up for a sandwhich. I didn't take the next short trade but came back to my screen with the consolidation taking place between 12.00 and 12.33. I opened my long positions at 12.37 same as you. The exit crossovers occured at about 13.12 just above the pivot. At 13.10 there was a down spike that made me think the price may recover and bounce up from the pivot lineso I decided that had I been really trading I would have stayed in to see if I could improve the exit price. Thats what was in my mind as it got to the CCI exit. I would nornally not have expected the pivot line to be breached again and so when I said closed at 13.29 I would probably still been holding onto the trade. I must enthasise that this is not a rigid mechanical system but a strategy from which to trade, so put in trend lines, consolidation support and resistance lines and be prepared to risk a couple of extra points if you feel that a trend break or consolidation break or the approach of a pivot line etc is putting the odds in your favour. Its about putting all your chart experience and the strategy together.

If you look at the big 40 point trend this afternoon between 2.00 and 3.15 the trend line would have been a good exit for me. Loads of points in the bag. I would have taken the points and run. I would have been well pleased with 100 points and would comfortably shut my eyes to what happens after I closed out.

[smarm] 28/5/2008 14:39

X - I have same as you, although didn't get them in real time. Looking good. I like DEMA/TEMA...they seem to give a very good early entry. Risky but early.

S

[xanbea] 28/5/2008 14:12

Henry

Hi had entries (on paper) on all 3 between 1236 and 1240 hrs at between 6081 & 6083 (using ig, 1min charts). SMI was a little low but rising. Was out of them all between 1310 and 1325 for around 10 points on each. So would not have been in anything for the 1330 rise, and when it took off smi was still not good - would you have caught this?

Also, regarding CCI, on each of the examples I've looked at so far, the exit would have been better at the 100 line used as an entry rather than waiting for return to 0. Any thoughts on this? Is this just a coincidence, as it's only been 4 or 5 examples I've looked at.

ex-mach

[henryatkin] 28/5/2008 13:41

Shame waste of time - still would have had another few points from 12.37 break so my total would have been about 65 points for the day. Thats my lot for today.

A big positive breakout at 13.30 if I had stayed in but I am not prepared to risk it I have seen it jum by 30 points in one bar so to risky for me.

Since I changed to the d/t setting a couple of weeks back I am finding that it is giving signals very close to the 20/20 so I may investigate something to try and diversify entry and exit a bit more so as to spread the risk around a bit more evenly.

[fivesboy] 28/5/2008 13:03

6100 proving tricky, as you'd expect

[henryatkin] 28/5/2008 12:58

The next pivot at 6133 not out of the question.

[henryatkin] 28/5/2008 12:57

I'm glad your still in Fives ... this looks like it could be a serious break through the pivot.

[fivesboy] 28/5/2008 12:42

Henry, Thanks again. I am having fun trading these consolidation breakouts!