Byotrol Share Discussion Threads

[the ghost who walks] 19/8/2021 07:03

Ok the outlook is decent, even good, thankfully

[sikhthetech] 18/8/2021 21:01

1gw

"Solvay has been jam yesterday, jam today and will be jam tomorrow."

Given the Solvay deal was signed years ago and it's jam yesterday, today and tomorrow, they must be earning millions from the deal.
How many millions have Byot earnt from them?

How many millions have the other partnerships earnt? Enough to complete your £17m revenues???. We'll know tomorrow, won't we?



1gw14 May '20 - 17:37 - 5918 of 5960
Just as a reminder of the building blocks for this year:

£12m product sales (annual based on Mar-May run rate)
£ m royalty/minimum guaranteed payment Americas byotrol24
£ m royalty/minimum guaranteed payment SC Johnson Invirtu
£ m royalty/minimum guaranteed payment Tristel/Cache
£ m royalty/minimum guaranteed payment Solvay Actizone
£ m royalty Tristel new formulation (+ any increase in actizone supply sales over Apr-May rate)

Now some of the £m may be £k this year, but it seems to me byotrol is putting together an impressive portfolio of licence deals. And even so you could argue it is only just getting started: how many more deals can it do like the Tristel/Cache one to license non-core technologies to companies whose products are under regulatory threat? how many more geographies could it license byotrol24 in? can it license Invirtu in various geographies, or will meaningful royalties come in from the US red cross deal if Advanced Hygienics can find funding for marketing and production?

[1gw] 18/8/2021 20:49

"This deal was essentially a sale by Byotrol to Solvay of Actizone patents and intellectual property, in return for:
- payments falling due in financial years ending March 2018 and March 2019;
- an ongoing royalty on all Actizone sales thereafter, with minimum guarantees in years ending March 2020 and 2021;
- a further payment in early 2022 should sales exceed certain sales targets in 2021;
- an ongoing right to sell Actizone technologies in finished product form, which we believe will be of interest to both consumer and business markets"

(FY18 annual report)

So as you can see, STT, Solvay has been jam yesterday, jam today and will be jam tomorrow.

[sikhthetech] 18/8/2021 20:14

1gw,

Like I've mentioned before, it's jam tomorrow, isn't it?
Yet you ramp it as jam today.

You've been completely wrong here and TLY with your speculative, misleading waffle.



1gw - 04 Jan 2021 - 21:41:57 - 7322 of 8520 BYOTROL-CAN DELIVER AMAZING RESULTS
sikhthetech - you're arguing that consumer sales were relatively low over the last 6 months (i.e. pandemic period), and yet they still made around £2m bottom-line profit over the last 12 months didn't they? So at £32m-ish market cap a P/E of around 16 on a TTM basis. So £2m feels like a fair bit of jam today, and with a lot of jam still to come from Solvay and IRI wouldn't that argue for an increased share price rather than a lower one?


This has been ramped by you and others on Boots and other sales, like Tower, Target etc..

[1gw] 18/8/2021 20:13

Another thing to note about that slide is just the timeframe involved, again not dissimilar to biotech. New products take time to bring to market if they are relatively high-tech and involve relatively highly-regulated markets.

[1gw] 18/8/2021 20:00

An early-stage biotech, stt, is a company that deals in drug discovery and the early stages of drug development, as opposed to the later stages which involve much more significant spend on development (e.g. Phase 3 trials) and then big costs in sales and marketing. It's nothing to do with the company being new to the market.

These early-stage biotech companies (such as SLN, which you have some knowledge of) tend to out-licence their discoveries so that a bigger company picks up the costs of the expensive stages of development and the commercialisation.

And I think it's a pretty good analogy for what byotrol has done with Solvay and what it could choose to do with Seaweed products, particularly if outside byotrol's traditional area of competence in hand/surface sanitising products.

Have a look at the last slide of the Solvay presentation linked below (and previously posted) to see the Actizone journey:

2011 - The small company Byotrol tests a Solvay HSC polymer in disinfectant formulations and takes a patent

2015 - JDA signed between Byotrol and Solvay. Solvay starts improving the technology.

2018 - Solvay acquires Byotrol patent. Extensive work on formulation redesign. Basic understanding at the molecule level of the mode of action.

2019/20 - Development of a portfolio of customer projects (Wings, Henkel, RB, Clorox, Diversey, LG, Ecolab). First sales in EU (Germany) and AP (Indonesia and Thailand)

2021 (plan) - Leverage the position acquired on markets we know (hard surface disinfection) to explore new markets: disinfection in the Food industry and Hospitals. Work on two new generations of formulations.

This is a Solvay slide, not a byotrol one. In the biotech world this is IMO analagous to byotrol doing drug discovery and early development (2011-15), joint work on early phase trials (2015-18), Solvay take on latter phases (2018-19) , commercialisation (2020+) and development of further generations of the product.

[sikhthetech] 18/8/2021 19:36

1gw,
Not out of context at all. Just showing how many years this so called 'early stage biotech'(as you call them) has been listed and since their initial patent. Around 15yr/25yrs!!!!

Here's another one referring to the swine flu outbreak over a decade ago. How many more years/decades of jam tomorrow, outbreaks do you think there will be.



sikhthetech - 30 Apr 2020 - 13:29:14 - 5751 of 8516 BYOTROL-CAN DELIVER AMAZING
A.Fewbob,

"obviously negotiating licence deals doesn’t happen overnight."

The initial patent was around 25yrs ago. They IPO was around 15yrs, so not overnight!!


Whatever happened to all those deals following the Swine flu pandanmic.. A DECADE AGO, so not overnight!!

"The significant increase in sales is in part due to the concern regarding swine flu; however it can also be attributed to a greater appreciation of the qualities, efficacy and broad applications of Byotrol. "
"We remain confident of the prospects for Byotrol "

Distributors & Parners
" Healthcare through our relationship with Synergy Health plc in Europe and through distributors in the US
* Food and beverage, both through distributors and direct sales
* Consumer products through our joint venture, Byotrol Consumer Products Ltd. "

[1gw] 18/8/2021 18:53

Ever the master of the out-of-context quote stt.

That post you quote in 7564 was actually arguing (see below) that Solvay would have thought of it and would have insisted on change-of-control provisions.

And as for the idea of out-licensing being "speculative waffle" it's what byotrol does, the Solvay deal being a prime example.

----------------
1gw - 06 Feb 2021 - 15:28:21 - 7556 of 8517
I wonder if there might be "change of control" issues on the Actizone usage rights? I can't believe Solvay would be happy with a big FMCG company buying byotrol and then being able to make and sell Actizone products without licensing the technology from Solvay. So I would think the byotrol-Solvay agreement would contain a clause limiting these usage rights in the event of certain (maybe all) types of takeover of byotrol.

If so, then byotrol has value as an independent company that would be lost on takeover - the value of selling its own Actizone products...

[sikhthetech] 18/8/2021 18:22

1gw

"You don't necessarily have to develop and sell products yourself, you can license to a partner who has more expertise in developing and commercialising new technology. This is what early-stage biotechs do all the time"

Same old speculative waffle...


sikhthetech - 06 Feb 2021 - 21:28:05 - 7564 of 8516 BYOTROL-CAN DELIVER AMAZING
1gw

"I can't believe Solvay would be happy with a big FMCG company buying byotrol and then being able to make and sell Actizone products without licensing the technology from Solvay. "

Wasn't the Solvay deal signed several years ago, think it was 2015, wasn't it?
Byotrol's initial patents were some 25yrs ago.
Their IPO was 15yrs ago.

Byot sales spiked during swine flu over a decade ago.

All before Solvay signed their partnership...

Therefore, given Solvay signed their partnership afterwards, I think they would already have thought about those concerns you mention.

[the ghost who walks] 18/8/2021 17:36

Given the selling pressure have to assume some disappointment tomorrow. Hoping to be positively surprised but am assuming we don't get a great outlook statement,

[1gw] 18/8/2021 17:32

Still seemed to be quite a lot for sale today. They appear to have got the real offer below 5.2 by the end, so maybe a delayed sell to report. I wonder if our seller will continue tomorrow, or will re-assess in light of the results? In any case, the results will hopefully be the catalyst for more liquidity which will allow sellers to sell and buyers to buy.

[football] 18/8/2021 17:15

roll on 7am

GLA










PS. knowing Byotrol it will be late so 8.01am

[1gw] 18/8/2021 14:40

And that analogy of early-stage biotech / big pharma also works quite well with the Solvay deal I think. byotrol had the idea (of using a Solvay polymer with byotrol technology) and developed it part of the way into Actizone. They then gradually let Solvay into the project, ultimately selling on the IP to Solvay, who then threw its resources behind the project for several years of further development and is now commercialising it. byotrol retained sufficient rights (right to sell Actizone technologies in finished product form, and right to commission on Solvay sales) to benefit from any success Solvay has in bringing the product to mass markets.

[1gw] 18/8/2021 14:32

I think it is actually quite a big deal to have a patent-protected lead in an area of huge interest for the industry. You don't necessarily have to develop and sell products yourself, you can license to a partner who has more expertise in developing and commercialising new technology. This is what early-stage biotechs do all the time by out-licensing new drug candidates to big pharma companies after they have done some initial work.

And to some extent this is what byotrol have done with Tristel on byotrol's contribution to the combinatorial product, for which Tristel then have to take on the challenge of selling into the hospital sector using their greater commercialisation capacity.

But of course, byotrol have in addition to the "unique surface disinfectant product" also licensed two formulations to Tristel for its Cache range. This is an example of byotrol licensing its products to companies who see their existing product set under threat from tightening regulations.

"In addition, Byotrol will licence two biocidal formulations to Tristel for incorporation in its surface disinfectants range which is branded Cache...The Agreement will ensure that Tristel will continue to comply fully with the future regulatory environment that will govern the manufacture and sale of disinfectants for surface disinfection. "

[sikhthetech] 18/8/2021 13:48

'Material', 'Huge' mean nothing as the results over the past have shown.

Online boots sales are still not at the same levels as they were during the early stages of the pandemic...
currently only 14 bottles of 50ml in 24hr period.


They may have unique tech but it needs to sell commercially to make money.

A point well made by Tristel:




sikhthetech - 10 Apr 2021 - 20:08:02 - 7934 of 8509 BYOTROL-CAN DELIVER AMAZING
Tstl share price movements makes no difference here.

Tstl share price movements makes no difference here.

As Tristel stated in their Q&A only a few months ago (Sept 2020), the product is unique from a chemistry prospective but whether it will be a commercial success, will take a long time to determine.


Tstl stated the position perfectly regarding tech and commercial success.

"The challenge we face with our partner Byotrol is essentially one of marketing communication: messaging. Today, UK hospitals use Jet because it is a high-performance, fast-acting biocide, effective against bacterial spores and compliant with every European legal requirement for disinfectants within one standard contact time of 1 minute, that is easy and convenient to use, and priced competitively to
pre-wetted wipes incorporating far less effective disinfectant chemistries."


"The intermediate level disinfectant formulation that has also been licensed from Byotrol will sit in one or more of the Cache Collection SKUs, alongside other formulation offers that come from our own stable of non-CLO2 chemistries. The Byotrol intermediate level formulation is very well-documented and supported by their technical team. "


"We are enthusiastic for the combinatorial proposition but it is important that we set expectations sensibly (we follow with interest the excitable dialogue on the share chat rooms): this is not a gamechanging technological advance for Tristel plc. The grounded truth is that with our partner Byotrol we have created something unique from a chemistry perspective"
" The commercial success of that proposition will take a long time to
determine."

[1gw] 18/8/2021 12:53

Although it may well be that away from their core sanitisation markets they see earlier applications in animal health rather than human health. I was forgetting the Boots trial was for a nasal/throat spray.

[1gw] 18/8/2021 11:13

"This is an area of huge interest in our industry at the moment and we believe we have a lead in a technology with excellent commercial potential in our core sanitising markets and elsewhere. "

That's what they said in the interims, where "core sanitising markets" were definitely in the equation. Previously they have made reference to animal feed I think and I thought this was in addition to, rather than instead of, their usual focus on sanitisation.

[riddlerone] 18/8/2021 10:51

Thanks football,I didn't realise they had got to a point where they were targeting a specific area.Can I ask where you got that info from.

[football] 18/8/2021 10:22

Riddle my understanding is the seaweed is more for animal foodstuffs and stopping infection for food production yields

[riddlerone] 18/8/2021 09:14

Well at last one more sleep and we will know if our belief in the management and the detective grade research done here is to be rewarded.

Here is another important update to keep your eye on,the completion of the clinical trial of the Marinomed Boots Seaweed product.




Actual Study Start Date : December 17, 2020
Estimated Primary Completion Date : November 1, 2021
Estimated Study Completion Date : December 1, 2021


Good Luck all for tomorrow

[the ghost who walks] 18/8/2021 07:28

Out of these the only one which somewhat concerned me was the exercise and sale of options

[football] 17/8/2021 23:14

Looks like Hycolin are going world wide and hopefully so will there New Byotrol product with them

[milesy] 17/8/2021 22:17

Yes, sometimes the price we pay for that wonderful pot of jam tomorrow is not being able to conserve the share price today.

When she said I'd got my investments totally wrong, my mama lied ;~)

[1gw] 17/8/2021 21:02

In fact, if you were of a nervous disposition, you could probably get quite worried by the combination of:

o Director share sales (after option exercise) announced on 28th April
o Delay (vs previous expectations) to results announced on 27th July
o VLG profit warning on 13th August

And then the plunge below 6p could have triggered other more technical-driven concerns.

Only 1 more trading day to go before we get some news.