Burford Capital Share Discussion Threads

[chimers] 11/2/2020 15:30

If your trousers don't fit... you're wearing someone else's trousers..."I made that one up just now"

[chimers] 11/2/2020 15:29

The Investor of today never profits from yesterdays growth.


See look what you have done ....I cant stop now.

[stockvalue] 11/2/2020 15:22

@rar100 to have a informed opinion read the official court sheets. WangCai did tweet a download link for the Petersen case on Twitter with all the latest files i think. Read and have your own opinion. But you are right there are fake news out there as well, especially in the russian and argentina media, you can read ridiculous things. I wonder why that is, NOT. Other than that single cases don't matter to much here, there will be loses, its venture capital after all.

[chimers] 11/2/2020 15:20

Rar....mate....matey....old buddy....YOUR INVESTED IN SOMETHING YOU DONT UNDERSTAND.

“Never invest in a business you cannot understand.” "Warren Buffet"

[rar100] 11/2/2020 15:10

I’d be grateful if someone can clarify the recent posts re: Argentina and Germany court cases.

Is this just hear-say, is the newspaper that some of this is supposed to have from reputable?

Please excuse my ignorance of the Argentina cases that Burford have, the recent posts seem to indicate that they may be ‘toast’ and so there will be no very large payout to Burford, and also the German case ‘the trucks cartel’ also ‘toast’.

If so then BUR stand to lose a lot more in costs etc. and maybe other ramifications that will cost them, let alone losing the slice from winning the case they expected.

But maybe the BUR’s wins of cases (from past history granted, but giving guestimates to a proportion of wins versus losses) may mitigate matters and they still make profit? I guess that it’s only the years final accounts can answer that.

What worries me is that anyone (short sellers in particular) can post anything about cases that BUR have, and spread malicious rumours to drive the share price down, easy to do with legal jargon to confuse most people, just another line of attack but a potent one.

Is that happening here?

[elsa7878] 11/2/2020 14:58

And Muddy Waters sticking the boot in again.

[epicsurf] 11/2/2020 14:34

Maybe a reaction to NMC price collapsing 17% today

[dgdg1] 11/2/2020 14:27

Does anyone know the potential value to Burford of that German case? Also, the German story came out a few days ago - I was referring mainly to the spike down a few hours ago which has now reversed.

[lazg] 11/2/2020 14:23

The one logical reason for the stock price going down the last few days is that the biggest Burford backed claim championed by Hausfeld in the trucks cartel case in Germany (EUR 900 million) was deemed unlawful by the court of Munich in first instance. This is bad news, as I am not confident that the next instance will revert that decisin. The key technicality being that the claim was brought forward by a SPV and it was unclear whether such SPV may act for third parties in such cases. While the German Federal Court has ruled that a similar structure is fine for rental law (wenigermiete.de) this logic may not apply to complex cases such as antitrust damage claims. Other claims may follow.

[dgdg1] 11/2/2020 14:13

Does anyone have an explantion, or even half an explanation for that spike down in the price? Trading in this share seems to be getting more and more crazy.

[elsa7878] 11/2/2020 13:40

Just can't work this out despite several attempts. It is tempting as the valuation looks compelling on the basis of Petersen alone, but the capital structure is not ideal and so much of the accounts appear to require a degree of interpretation / trust. With no legal expertise or qualifications in semantics I'll give it a miss.

[mad foetus] 11/2/2020 13:29

If they bought from the liquidators then the scope for challenge is even less as it will have been court sanctioned.

[stockvalue] 11/2/2020 13:26

The article says nothing new. Just old news and irrelevant as well. Who cares if Bur bought the Petersen claim from Petersen or the Spain liquidators.

[lomax99] 11/2/2020 13:23

He says that "he is totally oblivious to any lawsuit against YPF or the State"

The Petersen Group takes distance from the trial in New York

From the diffusion of the new Argentine presentation, the first since the assumption of the new government, in the trial that is carried out before the judge of the South district of New York, Loretta Preska, on the consequences of the expropriation of YPF in 2012 , the Petersen Group assured this newspaper that "it is totally oblivious to any lawsuit against YPF and / or the National State in Argentina or abroad. That it expressly waived that right to litigate against the Argentine State and that it did not initiate the trial nor did he sell the rights to the Burford fund, with which the Petersen Group has no relationship, commercial or otherwise. "

In its statement it states that "the lawsuit against Argentina is driven by the Burford fund, to which the Spanish courts sold the rights to litigate against the country in the context of the bankruptcy process of Petersen Energía and Petersen Energía Inversora initiated after the expropriation of YPF. At the time of the start of the lawsuit, these two companies no longer had a relationship with the Petersen Group. "


They also say that "it was the Spanish justice that administers the Petersen bankruptcy process that auctioned those rights to litigate, which were acquired by Burford (the same fund that won the trial against Argentina for the expropriation of Airlines)."

Later, they schematically tell the story of that Group's relationship with YPF:

"The income of the Petersen Group in YPF was made through 2 companies based in Spain (a condition established by the lenders to grant the loans). Those 2 companies are Petersen Energía and Petersen Energía Inversora.

"After the takeover of YPF SA by the National State, Petersen Energía and Petersen Energía Inversora, they proceeded - not being able to face the repayment of the loans - to dispose of all the shares they held as collateral of the loans received for acquisition, which is why since that time (2012) they do not have any shareholding in YPF.

"The 2 Petersen companies were bankrupt and a liquidation process was initiated in the Spanish commercial justice (Commercial Court No. 3), which appointed a bankruptcy administrator.

"The bankruptcy administrator argued that by expropriating Repsol its 51 percent in YPF, the Argentine State should have launched a Public Offering (OPA) for 100 of the company, as indicated by the company's bylaws, something that did not happen. therefore, it determined that the 2 Petersen companies have the right to litigate against the Argentine State because they suffered damage.

"It was the insolvency administrator who defined the entry of Burford. That is, Burford bought the bankruptcy from the Spanish justice and with it the rights to litigate against Argentina and filed the lawsuit in 2015 in the New York courts (which accepted the claim because YPF shares are listed on Wall Street).



"On 4/9/15, when the news of the lawsuit filed by Burford on the previous day was known, and before erroneous information that began to circulate in some media, the Petersen Group issued a press release clarifying that it is totally on the sidelines and has no interference in any judicial process related to YPF. "

[f15jcm] 11/2/2020 13:12

Anything to do with this? hxxps://www.pagina12.com.ar/246806-el-grupo-petersen-toma-distancia-del-juicio-en-nueva-york

[williamcooper104] 11/2/2020 13:11

Far prefer US stocks as a general rule

[time_traveller] 11/2/2020 12:44

A shorters play thing. That's what you get when you stay listed on AIM.

We did warn them. Conventional investors get stopped out, or are just too scared to touch it in the first place.

[cokehookerscars] 11/2/2020 12:41

Yep, this company is dog sh*t.

[chimers] 11/2/2020 12:33

PS. I shall be sending out a fee in future.
I learned at the coal face and I shouldn't be giving it away for free like the missus does!!

[chimers] 11/2/2020 12:26

Right so....

[time_traveller] 11/2/2020 09:22

So much for hoping for a quieter day (I've given up hoping for an up day).