Braemore Res Share Discussion Threads

[masurenguy] 23/7/2009 09:30

Thanks for your input david77. So your view that Ruukki/Sylvania have a Mintek furnace that negates their requirement for Conroast directly contradicts WD's repeated claim that they will not be able to execute their business model without it. If this is the case it would certainly explain why they did not bid for BRR when they had the chance.
I note that WD is still completely evading the question why Ruukki/Sylvania did not bid for BRR in spite of her continued assertion that they need Conroast !

[david77] 23/7/2009 09:03

"Masurenguy - 23 Jul'09 - 08:40 - 19471 of 19471

wdurham - 3 Jul'09 - 14:01 - 18733 of 19402: I hear on the grapevine that Braemore ARE playing hard to get. Ruukki/Sylvania seem to think they have Conroast in the bag. Without Conroast, the Ruukki master plan is doomed from the start. So - in order not to have egg all over their faces - they have got to make an offer that the Braemore board, and their major shareholder Atomaer, are prepared to accept."

Apologies for replying to message addressed to WD - WD told us that Ruukki/Sylvania do have a DC furnace designed by Mintek but which doesn't breach the Conroast patent. Ruukki/Sylvania don't need Conroast and I should have sold my BRR shares then :-(

[masurenguy] 23/7/2009 09:01

Then why didn't they make an offer and pick up BRR very cheaply ?

[wdurham] 23/7/2009 08:51

Mas -

You left off the last sentence of that quote. Which said that as far as I was aware, no such offer had been made.

It wasn't made. And it still hasn't been made.

But it will have to be made, in one form or another, if Ruukki/Sylvania are to be able to execute their mine-to-metal strategy for PGMs.

Unless Ruukki/Sylvania are prepared to (a) spend a few years developing and testing a new way to deal with PGMs in a DC arc furnace, or (b) infringe the Mintek patent, they will have to negotiate a deal of some kind in the future with Jubilee/Braemore.

[masurenguy] 23/7/2009 08:40

wdurham - 3 Jul'09 - 14:01 - 18733 of 19402: I hear on the grapevine that Braemore ARE playing hard to get. Ruukki/Sylvania seem to think they have Conroast in the bag. Without Conroast, the Ruukki master plan is doomed from the start. So - in order not to have egg all over their faces - they have got to make an offer that the Braemore board, and their major shareholder Atomaer, are prepared to accept.

I notice that WD has still not commented on this claim that she made 3 weeks ago in spite of it being highlighted here just a couple of days ago !

[wdurham] 23/7/2009 08:17

WStirrup -

"Perhaps BRR should have been using their superior technology to get licencing deals/tie-ins with proof of concepts for some of the PGM producers rather than trying to build larger capital demanding plants."

That is PRECISELY what Braemore's business model in South Africa is, and what they have been ateempting to do for the last two years. The intention ever since Braemore bought Independence Platinum has been to secure partnerships and JVs with PGM producers at project level, and then supply smelting/refining facilities tailored to a project or group of projects, in return for a share of the resources involved. One such deal is in place, with Tharisa Minerals, though a second similar deal with Pan Palladium was overturned by a major shareholder, believed to be Robert Friedland. But since the bottom dropped out of the platinum industry in South Africa, only one deal has been sewn up, with Jubilee, for the treatment of PGM concentrate derived from surface tailings. However, it is clear from the presentations made by some of the Eastern Limb juniors that Conroast plays a role in their future development. It is also clear from statements made in the media that PGM producers are certainly looking at the potential, but with all the current uncertainty, no-one wants to be first!

[wstirrup] 22/7/2009 23:08

I have to admit, the rsponses between certain individuals has been less than adult, and getting into a loss situation can strain one's nerves somewhat.

As for predicting price crashes and access to capital, I believe that was predictable. I have been beating my chest about just this for a couple of years. (courtesy of the information/analysis provided by others more informed than I)

The CEO of ANY company has a job to do. Keep one eye on the company, and the other on the horizon for outside threats. Failing in either task should be cause for concern, and potentially a loss of job.

Having got us into the mess though, they seemed to have made the best of a bad job, and we live to fight another day, as the saying goes.

I for one think conroast is both financially and environmentally the right technique at just the right time for both capital markets and environmental responsibility.

Perhaps BRR should have been using their superior technology to get licencing deals/tie-ins with proof of concepts for some of the PGM producers rather than trying to build larger capital demanding plants.

Of course, we can all be smart witih hindsight.

W.

[billysilly] 22/7/2009 15:57

jubilee insti presentation now on BRR website...

[judijudi] 22/7/2009 15:28

Wake Up
Bone Idle Git
:)

[monkey puzzle] 22/7/2009 15:10

Yawn...zzzzzzz

[judijudi] 22/7/2009 14:33

p@,
"its not our fault" is a standard response for failure. The drop in PGM prices falls right into this managements hands.
Certain people are happy with their response and that excuse

[p@] 22/7/2009 14:18

GEK-Its the same with most companies,if metal prices go up the Directors are 'clever'.Pay rise and bonus,if metal prices go down 'Its not our fault Gov..

[billysilly] 22/7/2009 13:34

when is this bloomin vote likely to be?

[monkey puzzle] 22/7/2009 13:26

Excellent advice.....

[freedosh] 22/7/2009 13:17

Maybe I can help by putting some of this in context.
Wendy is a complete lady.
Judi is a complete dog.
Now, whilst Wendy is a very busy lady, if she could see her way to taking Judi walkies a little more frequently and shouting "heal", every so often, all would soon settle and we will have domestic bliss.
freedosh Advisory Service.

[monkey puzzle] 22/7/2009 13:15

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[geko5trade] 22/7/2009 12:49

Don't see any point in continuing these exchanges because you don't seem capable of understanding my posts or presenting any argument with detail and facts to back it up. I'm a bit surprised that you are prepared to make a significant investment in a company that you think has been so badly managed for so long. Had I listened to their presentations and come to the same conclusion as you I'd have been pretty quick to sell out. If you come up with any reasoned argument let us know. For now I'm going to spend my time researching JLP because that is now the reality. You might be advised to do the same, but each to their own.

[monkey puzzle] 22/7/2009 12:49

Jeez you are even more boring now...ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ....get over it.

[judijudi] 22/7/2009 10:51

Oh and ask Matrix about clarity, definition or the management explaining themselves clearly at presentations. He organised one with some major players and was less than impressed

[judijudi] 22/7/2009 10:23

Geko,
You have answered your own question. Saved me a job
Ta very much :)
But as I said if my company nearly goes to the wall and I need to sell it at a ludicrously low price to survive then its my fault. I got the company into that position in the first place. Nobody else to blame but me!!
Oh by the way do you like to hear your own voice at home?

[geko5trade] 22/7/2009 09:57

Unfortunately judijudi that is not a good analogy and clearly you are missing something. Quite a lot actually. Let's leave out your simplistic analogy and concentrate on your accusation against the management of BRR. How would you have handled the situation differently.
BRR don't control metal prices. They don't control the availability of capital within the equity markets. They don't control exchange rates. They were set up, quite reasonably, to raise money in the markets. It seems difficult to blame them for the global collapse of the market. The only criticism I've read so far is that they were accused of putting out positive announcements prior to this TO. I think there is a degree of truth in that but only in so far as they may have drawn in money while the price was inflated. However for the long term holders such as yourself that is not actually doing you a disservice. Had they put out negative announcements they would have brought the price down and reduced their ability to negotiate or raise capital. They probably didn't have any choice about content or timing of announcements anyway. You could argue, and I'm trying to help you here, that they did not present their case well enough to institutions or to the market as a whole. You could argue that they did not position themselves or define themselves clearly enough within the mining sector. However if you listen to their presentations they don't appear to be lacking clarity.
In your analogy presumably the driver could have stopped, braked, turned, had a cup of coffeee to stay awake. What do you think the management of BRR should have done in response to the set of circumstances they were faced with. How could they have raised capital at a more favourable price. Perhaps you think they should have been more proactive. What exactly do you think they should have done? I'm interested to hear.

[monkey puzzle] 22/7/2009 09:50

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.........