Birse Share Discussion Threads

[micos] 26/6/2006 07:27

Now we know

[eithin] 26/6/2006 07:06

OFFER FROMM BALFOUR BEATTY 16.625 p per share....

[mistertibbs] 23/6/2006 21:23

Just had vanother look at the interims and also last year's prelims. Ouch comes to mind. Certainly, no clean accounts this year but are we at long last, getting all the rubbish out of the way for next year?

I suppose the whacking big overdraft should be temporary, but not down by as much at the interims as would have hoped.

[relko] 23/6/2006 19:55

Well I'm really pleased there is now plenty of discussion on this board.
Totally agree with muckshifter's comments re cash shortage.
And will "put my hand up" - didn't expect this company to survive post Citibank.
Suppose BIE is not out of the woods yet, but at least it is still here.
LOL to you all.

[mistertibbs] 23/6/2006 19:49

Agree with you both. It continually bothers me that they still pay out a tidy sum on their divi's (not complaining from an income point of view) but then maybe just as well as their use of the cash in times past not great at all. Still, lots of turnover and small margins. Room for improvement in that line will help, me thinks. Soon be reporting time, usually early July me thinks again.

[muckshifter] 23/6/2006 17:46

I recently sat next to one of the men who identify / deal with risk (probably THE man for a particular element of Birse) during discussions of risk etc on a job they were tendering for, as the price was being finalised. I would say he was as good as any I've worked with, in the various companies we are involved with.

Some risk decisions are taken despite the "witterings" of the man who identifies risk, and some risks are just missed, as I suspect the one with the stadium was. Its a matter of getting more right than wrong, and Birse has had some very hard lessons over the last few years, which should improve its perception of risk.

Many of the elements of Birse that I've seen and worked with impress me. But the thing that puts me off buying any shares is the severity of the cash shortage they have been enduring for some time, it makes them too vulnerable to a bad job IMHO for the forseeable future.
Regards.

[chrissey] 23/6/2006 16:46

oui mistertibbs, ces't moi!

At least we have a common view that a departure from the old hat incompetence is the first stage in a turnaround.

From then on they will look interesting to a predator and always more attractive when clean and free of the skeletons in the cupboard although with this bunch you never quite know where the next one will pop out from!

[mistertibbs] 23/6/2006 15:52

The only trouble for me is it's the same management that got us into a fine old mess as before. Maybe if there was a change in that department, things would smell a bit nicer. Nice to see you here as well as rnwh muckshifter. Seems like you like to keep your finger on the construction pulse, although up until recently, this share had little pulse to speak of.

Good post chrissey. Are you that cat that keeps s....ing in my garden?

[gibbo1] 23/6/2006 14:18

A few recent posts suggesting teh company to be a reasonable financial state seem to ignore 1- the huge overdraft (which no bank is happy to see maintained) and 2- continual operating losses (irrespective of exceptional losses such as Citibank). Quite right Muckshifter, the client determines the terms but it is surely up to senior management to see that these contracts are adequately negotiated and managed to avoid the fall-out that we keep seeing.

What I do agree with is that maybe when the results are released it will be the first time there hasn't been ANOTHER huge write-down that simply blows away the overall group performance, and that in itself is surely grounds for improved confidence for the future?

[spiritbear] 23/6/2006 00:13

I agree that there is a big punter which twitched the share price after a long period of nothing. It raises the question as to why a person would invest so much in this company that gets itself into trouble here and there? That signals something interesting and alerts other investors to take a closer look at. And with results so soon and a good divi, perhaps worth a punt. Of course, it could be wrong.

[the bounty hunter] 22/6/2006 22:02

AS soon as the nasties are out of the numbers, hopefully this will start to move north big time. I would not be surprised if a big punter is starting to build a holding. I followed costain up from a smiliar position.

[chrissey] 22/6/2006 21:22

Then Birse needs to be more proficient at contract review and negotiation.

They built the Walkers stadium at Leicester ad walked away with less money than they could even buy a packet of the said brand crisps! OK maybe a family size packet but totally screwed nonetheless!

I do hold the shares and have done for some time on dividend attraction but they still need to get some proper credibility if they want the re-rating that would probably be warranted.

[muckshifter] 22/6/2006 20:04

Doesn't work that way micos. The client draws up the contract and the terms are clear in the tender document. All Birse can do is refuse to tender, or qualify their tender, which may result in it being rejected out of hand.
Regards.

[micos] 22/6/2006 19:18

Chrissey,
I believe you have hit the nail on the head.I have held these off and on for six years and the dividend yield has been maintained through thick and thin. Let's hope they have now got someone on board who can draft contracts that don't leave them losing money on technicalities that should be covered in the contract.
Micos

[chrissey] 22/6/2006 17:17

The explanation is simple, however suprising you find it!

Over the last 4-5 years Birse have done a pretty spectacular job of completely messing up a major contract, the outome invariably being a large cost to them as a result of not having proper contract terms, etc. in place.

This created a perception, quite rightly, that the management of the Company was incompetent and based on their pretty reliable track record in this respect, people began to factor this into their share price!

I suspect the pleasant, although very suprising, fact is that we appear to have got through the last year without such a mess so the bad news expectation can now be factored back out!

This does not mean we will not have a similar mess next month, year or whatever but the fact is that up to now the shareprice has been reflecting this negative expectation and without the problems with their management, the Company is actually in reasonable shape financially and with a good order book.

Make of this what you will but I think you will find I am closer to the truth than just pre result speculation!

[spiritbear] 22/6/2006 10:06

Some very large buys went through the other day which could indicate that someone knows something in the coming results. The rest are buying based on that speculation with the knowledge that if they are wrong, they can hold for a while and get the 7.5% Divi. Time will tell.

[sandbank] 21/6/2006 23:16

Results are out in three weeks...

Otherwise I suppose the rally is for the same reason the share price went up in January - and came down again - and went up again and came down again.

Too late to buy for the dividend now though.

[micos] 21/6/2006 14:57

Something is stirring here but I can't find what it is. Any word out there?

[chrismic] 20/6/2006 17:11

Strange can't find any reason. Hopefully not the rally before the fall.

[micos] 20/6/2006 12:32

Steep rise today, any reason?

[trying1sbest] 16/5/2006 19:51

Now there's one oddball of a cross breed if ever I heard one

[chrissey] 09/5/2006 17:04

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Oh heck, action! ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ, turn over love, your turn in front!

[the bounty hunter] 06/5/2006 09:22

Chrissey,
I guess until next update - probaby in July, investor interest will be limited. Would be good to see some of the directors' buying!