Birse Share Discussion Threads

[muckshifter] 15/7/2005 11:09

michaeld,
I agree with you that all the Birse statements are written in a deliberately ambiguous way. My belief has always been that Birse are defending the action by countering a court action started by Citi. It defies logic that they would risk the cost of losing this action - at least £10m IMHO, even without any change in the award to Citi.

I wrote posts on a couple of boards on this ages ago, suggesting that a Birse shareholder should pursue the question (I can't for various reasons). Carmensfella, on TMF, did ask and received the answer that the court action was instigated by Birse. The thread was on Pauly Pilots Pub board on TMF, and it was titled "Any Birse Holders here" IIRC.

However, despite Carmensfella's best efforts, I remain not quite convinced. If you read what he writes, it might well be that the FD was using the traditional "weasel words" that Birse used to rely on so heavily before Peter Birse had his conversion on the road to Damascus and became a "partnering" man.
If so, the bit about "we keep dialogue channels open and have constantly sought a negotiated solution" begins to look like an attempt to backpedal out of their action.
We shall see anyway.
Regards.

[michaeld] 15/7/2005 10:12

Well you might be right Relko and Birse management do seem to be daft enough to pay big bucks to lawyers when common sense would have avoided the problem in the first place?

[relko] 14/7/2005 22:13

Don't you think that if Citibank had intiated the challenge, BIE directors would be singing that fact from rooftops (read clarity of company statements). By doing so the directors would cover their backsides with the shareholders. Are they saying that? Is there clarity in their statements?
Draw your own conclusion.

[hvs] 14/7/2005 22:02

Well we shall see, plenhty more orders on hand and they would not pursue litigation such for the FIN OF It.

Even big boys like CITIBANK get get ot wrong.

Its a GAMBLE , but I feel it can pay off.

[michaeld] 14/7/2005 22:00

I have read the reports relko and it seems unclear from them who has iniated the continued litigation. If it is Birse, (as you and muckshifter maintain) then I think they need their heads read? unless they have good grounds for appealing.

[relko] 14/7/2005 19:52

der ......deadly.

If you bothered to read the report (read Accounts Reports, Interims etc and all notifications issued by BIE) you would note that BIE have continually used the same wording, they state:

"In...... we disclosed that a challenge had been lodged with the Technology and Construction Court"

Now where does that refer to Citibank initiating a challenge to the adjudicator's decision? It does not. Neither does it refer to BIE initiating the challenge.

Hence muckshifter's post 163.

The challenge has been initiated by BIE.

[michaeld] 14/7/2005 16:14

I don't think that the Adjudicator/s have to defend their decision? The Court will take their report/decision into consideration though and are generally liable to confirm it unless they feel that the decision was unfair for some reason (eg that new evidence has come to light). If Citibank are considered to have been frivolous in appealing the Adjudicators decision then they are likely to be liable for the court and Birse's additional costs, I believe. Citibank might also face a reduced settlement from Birse? If the decision of the court goes with Birse then there may be a nice little windfall in the accounts for next year? Time will tell but in the meantime we shareholders face a further prolonged period of uncertainty which is likely to keep the share price depressed?
I do wonder if having a barrister on the board of directors is a good thing or not? Does he like to engage in litigation rather than help prevent it? The signs are not good.

[its the oxman] 14/7/2005 09:56

ok results to my mind given litigation etc - at some point it will be resolved and the strong order flow increasingly reflected in profits - then share price might really move but until at least we have a chunky dividend to keep us going.

[mitchy] 14/7/2005 09:33

Why should Birse pay further costs when it is Citibank who are contesting the adjudicators decision?.It is the adjudictors who are now in a position of defending (their decision) ...not Birse!

[michaeld] 14/7/2005 09:25

Oh dear; ongoing litigation but we still have the divi and order book looking healthy. I just hope that those orders will not lead to further litigation though?

[deadly] 14/7/2005 09:04

Mitchy, if you could be bothered to read the report you would find that it is not BIE who are challenging the £2.1m but Citibank who want more - derrr!

[mitchy] 14/7/2005 08:21

Also "record order book" (2.5 times previous).But what I can't understand is why they are fighting a litigation at a cost of £2.9 million per annum when paying the reduced adjudication would cost £2.1 !!...der

[eithin] 14/7/2005 07:26

At least divi still there.

[relko] 13/7/2005 21:48

Wouldn't get excited
Rise since March is only in line with the Market

[hvs] 13/7/2005 21:32

Its going up and that is what COUNTS.

[hvs] 13/7/2005 11:53

Its still going up. Could some GOOD news be on the way ?

[toob] 08/7/2005 10:09

mitchy, your irony is noted, but return to the point. both sets of directorsthought, and said they were right , and they would win.but they lost!!!
when bie directors start winning these shares will look cheap. till then they look like a punt.
they have ben a great punt for years, because when all else failed , theyve paid a great divi. if that can be maintained they remain a great punt.
is there any reason to think the divi will be cut? only if they run out of cash.
what's the main job of the FD?....to look after the cash.
wheres the FD?...up the road.

[hvs] 08/7/2005 09:13

Nice rise today.

[mitchy] 08/7/2005 08:00

"The directors of both companies have gone to Court in the expectation of winning"!....how dare they!!

[relko] 07/7/2005 20:46

Disagree hvs - there is EVERY RELATION

The directors of both companies have gone to Court in the expectation of winning.

The directors of Equitable Life pretty much "backed the company" in the House of Lords and lost.

Seems to me the Birse directors may be doing the same.

As I said "risks and RISKS"

[hvs] 07/7/2005 20:39

We shall see. Equitable Life and Birse , there is NO RELATION.

Equitable Life,s management got away with what they did as the CITY GOT what it wanted out of it.

[relko] 07/7/2005 20:35

hvs 164
"BIRSE board is confident....Think they must know what they are doing."
Hmmmm - a lot of Equitable Life Policyholders adopted that attitude. They are now living to regret it. Big time.
LOL

[hvs] 07/7/2005 20:18

And U does your own research and then decides.

[relko] 07/7/2005 20:08

Yes, but there are risks and there are RISKS

[hvs] 07/7/2005 20:04

If u dont take risks u dont make money.