Biofutures Share Discussion Threads

[leedskier] 18/3/2013 13:28

BBR, you are cleverer than that. It is peanuts. $50 million is peanuts. One could not even buy a decent motor yacht for that.

[bam bam rubble] 18/3/2013 13:26

"The key point to appreciate is Platinum has never raised money in the markets"

Still plenty of money raised as a private company though

Nov 2006: incorporated
Aug 2007: acquired Platinum Biofuels, owner of palm biodiesel plant in Senawang
_FY 2008: raised £2.2m by selling 27% equity stake to GreenTech (listed company)
_FY 2009: raised £3.4m by selling 30% equity stake to various investors
_FY 2010: raised £1.6m by selling 13% equity stake to various investors
_FY 2011: raised £2.7m by selling 17% equity stake (convertible notes)
_FY 2012: raised £3.0m by selling 18% equity stake to various investors
Aug 2012: acquired Platinum Chemicals Nano G Sdn Bhd.

Debt accrued to date: £26.3m
£7.3m /RM 33.2m drawn under Malaysia Debt Ventures credit facility (8% interest)
£19m*/ RM 86.5m drawn down from Bank Pembangunan Malaysia loans (7.23% interest)
(*BPM loans repayable at average rate of £3 million a year from 2013 - Jun 2019)

[leedskier] 18/3/2013 13:25

It is rather strong. The Chairman of BIP is a gentleman of the first order. The CEO was always careful not to expose shareholders to risk. I understand that at times he was both frustrated and embarrassed about the the volatility of CPO over which he had no control.

add:

The CEO owns some 13 million shares in BIP. He has never sold one. He has never sold any options. He took a pay cut last year. By the standards operating on most AIM companies, he has been a paragon of virtue.

[pilot48] 18/3/2013 13:20

Good luck Andy. Hopefully a profitable exit.As it's new management I'm inclined to see how they interact with shareholders and report to the market.As for being lied to, can you give any examples?

[leedskier] 18/3/2013 13:18

Andy, at least you have got out at a much higher price than would have been the case if the company had not changed direction. Good luck for your future investments.

The company is of course not merely changing direction but will effectively be under new management. I expect the PR to be rather different as indeed is the website of the Platinum Group and PR of the senior management.

[andybenw] 18/3/2013 12:57

I am now out. Good luck to all those still holding but for me it seems a good point to bail out as I need to convert into cash at some point in the next few months. I must admit I am disappointed by this company. This is now the second change of course through necessity, information flow is not great, and in my email conversations with the company at times I have more or less been lied to. Good luck all, hope it comes good.

[leedskier] 18/3/2013 11:04

If I may add this thought.

The key point to appreciate is Platinum has never been listed on any stock exchange.

Therefore it has never raised money in the markets -- I exclude the sums injected by two or three funds.

To start a company from scratch and take it the point where it is or may become a market leader is expensive. Malaysian companies do not do organic growth, they raise the money and go for it.

So it is no surprise that it geared and no surprise that it now raises £35m.

But these sums are 'loose change' if it does what it says on the tin or rather in the AD. Malaysia is different from bankrupt Britain.

There are many companies there which are highly successful and which have expanded very rapidly over the last decade or so. Confidence there is high. Banks and Governments are happy to lend. It is a very 'go to' economy.

An example is Malaysian based PALM which has raised a fortune compared with this company to buy land and other companies to develop into a large palm oil plantation business. I have not rechecked for the purpose of this post, but amongst a number of cash raisings was selling $80m in bills.

add;


15 March 2012

Asian Plantations Ltd

("Asian Plantations" or the "Company")

Issuance of Medium Term Notes

Asian Plantations Limited (LSE: PALM), a palm oil plantation company with operations in Malaysia, is pleased to confirm that, further to the Company's announcement on 9 January 2013, it has now completed the second and final issuance of RM155 million (approximately US$49.8 million) of APL's medium term note programme ("MTN") (the "Second Tranche"), which now totals in aggregate RM255 million (approximately US$81.9 million).

[leedskier] 18/3/2013 10:18

The Prophet I do not think I suggested that you are trying to talk the share price down, simply sharing your thoughts.

[pilot48] 18/3/2013 10:06

Prophet, I see your point that a good entry point is post relisting as of course the market cap is always primed in favour of the company.Certainly appreciated your views and shared similar concerns based on my reading of the AD. As well as debt the manufacturing licence point is a concern if this is not granted to the extent the proposed activities would need this licence. Something to query with the new bod.

[pilot48] 18/3/2013 06:31

True it's loss making but the business is in its early stages of commercial development. I suppose it's a wait and see.As others have mentioned lots of potential news flow as mentioned in the AD.

[leedskier] 18/3/2013 05:28

The Prophet, I understand. You would like to buy shares, but at a lower price ;

[the prophet] 18/3/2013 00:10

Pilot48-well, lets just say that's an unusual way of going about things!It to me seems a weird combination of loss making biofuels business and the51% owned graphene business, which requires significant development.Personally I don't think they raised enough money, given the size of losses on the biofuels side and the expansion plans they have. So, going to watch with interest, could be a fascinating story, but there would seem to be a lot already built into the market cap. We'll see.

[pilot48] 17/3/2013 23:05

Prophet - re your earlier response, many thanks. I could have checked your posting history but it was more amusing to me to make a basher comment and see your response to see if you had an agenda or were a genuine poster.

Agreed on debt, I have serious concerns especially as the company is in the early stage of its commercial development.

1) Working capital constraints in January/February 2013.
2) Acquisition strategy - "principally using the Enlarged Group's shares" - this is fine if the acquisitions are viewed positively by the market and add value, but depends on management's eye for a good deal.
3) Potential licence issue for the graphene business - the operations do not require them to obtain a manufacturing licence. Not sure what this means i.e. not producing in sufficient quantities which requires a licence. "Failure to obtain such a licence could have a material impact on the Enlarged Group's business and profitability".

Below stands out as a worry - however, I am trying to balance this out with what I have read about the new management (and heard based on the radio interview) as well as past performance with Purecircle.

"The Enlarged Group will have significant indebtedness. The Enlarged Group's indebtedness could restrict its operations and have important consequences for the Enlarged Group.

Furthermore, the proceeds from certain contracts entered into by the Platinum Group have been assigned to Malaysia Debt Ventures Bhd in order to repay finance provided to the Platinum Group therefore there is no guarantee that revenue received by the Enlarged Group will directly contribute towards the cashflow of the Enlarged Group."

[pilot48] 17/3/2013 22:57

Background to the 49% interest and convertible shares -

On 24 December 2012, PNG issued and allotted 12,250,000 new irredeemable convertible preference shares of RM1.00 each in favour of Orange IP Ltd towards settlement of the consideration for the acquisition of the GNF plant from Juzer Jangbarwala as disclosed in Note 25 above. In addition, all parties namely Orange IP Ltd, Catalyx Nanotech Inc and Juzer Jangbarwala acknowledged and agreed the stipulated licensing fee of RM3,500,000 has been fully paid and settled by PNC.

[rob67] 17/3/2013 22:55

Yes that caught my attention too pilot. Its a good job we got taken over thats all I can say!

[pilot48] 17/3/2013 22:44

The New Board also intends to develop the Zurex Refinery into a pre-treatment plant for a new speciality chemicals plant, with associated Graphene production, in the near to medium term.

In 2012, the utilisation of the Zurex Refinery was limited to less than five per cent.

[pilot48] 17/3/2013 22:44

Rob - correct, it's 49% of Platinum Nano G and not Platinum NanoChem. That's 49% of profits GRPH does not receive but the joint venture agreement provides that all IP relating to Catalyx is transferred to Platinum NanoChem (3.2.3 of AD)

Juzer Jangbarwala is a key figure to the joint venture arrangement above and for Platinum NanoChem's IP generally (see p.59 of AD, IP risk factors).

[rob67] 16/3/2013 23:21

Having re-read the admission doc am I correct to say that Orange Ip will own 49% of Platinum Nano G when production of Graphene reaches 50MT in mid 2014? Platinum Nano G is just one of the subsidiaries of Graphene Nanochem so it doesnt own 49% of the main company, therefore although it will receive 49% of the graphene production profits, it wont get 49% of group profits which include the green specialist chemical bits which are the only ones currently generating revenues. Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

[frank1e] 16/3/2013 23:07

keya5000,yes done deal imo!

[leedskier] 16/3/2013 19:35

keya5000 private investors hold a significant proportion of the equity.

[pilot48] 16/3/2013 16:41

Coalition government. Enough said.

[keya5000] 16/3/2013 16:23

Is the vote not a done deal?


A few percentage of PI holdings are surely not critical or worth worrying over?

[leedskier] 16/3/2013 12:44

I will tip off the Company that the online brokers are not up to speed and maybe the company's brokers can get them on message. add. Part of the problem may be that it cannot be done in crest so may not be showing up on their systems.

[frank1e] 16/3/2013 12:30

Leeds, do not think my broker TDW are up to speed on this as the only corporate action they have on their site is in relation to the consolidation, with no action required!