Baltic Oil Terminals Share Discussion Threads

[liquidkid] 14/6/2017 10:59

Looks like South Seas Scheme

xbtprovider:
'The market value of a Bitcoin is not based on any type of claim or underlying asset. Instead the market value depends entirely on an expectation that Bitcoin can be used in future transactions. The strong connection between expectation and the market value of Bitcoin means that the market value of Bitcoin is and could continue to be volatile, meaning that an investor may experience great exchange gains or losses depending on the time when the investor buys or receives Bitcoin. Such volatility could cause expectations relating to Bitcoin's value to decrease'

[mcbeanburger] 12/6/2017 21:48

closed and re-entered order higher up.

expecting London give it a whack.

[mcbeanburger] 12/6/2017 20:01

? expand perhaps

[alexx] 12/6/2017 19:51

Price of bitcoin is so predictable for an hour, perhaps two, about once every ten days but unless you're there?

[mcbeanburger] 12/6/2017 18:30

taken a little short on btc - not the best location but nothing is holding at this point.

[mcbeanburger] 12/6/2017 16:50

dash chart held up better then eth. won't short dash but looking to short btc and maybe eth.

[compoundup] 12/6/2017 15:54

SPADman - re-your banked profit on ETH and ETC - good job!

I haven't yet researched DASH to the extent of considering investing. So far I have only got the differences between BTC and ETH clear. You could well be right that ETH in particular is overdue for a correction. It is quite different from BTC in concept/construct.

[mcbeanburger] 12/6/2017 15:35

miners have skin in the game but not investors. I've seen the later fail (can't remember the coin) but large Chinese holders (miners) wouldn't allow any changes. might have been sys coin....

I did expect a bigger drop through the ny kill zone. it's a start.

[spadman] 12/6/2017 08:19

Of all the weaknesses bitcoin could have had who would have guessed the "community" would have allowed the project to be hijacked. Its taken a while for me to admit but Governance is in the wrong hands at btc. With dash only those with skin in the game get to make decisions.

[oakville] 12/6/2017 05:08

Bitcoin currently £3008 how can you call it?

[mcbeanburger] 11/6/2017 22:38

who hacked spad's account? come on fess up.

[spadman] 11/6/2017 19:38

I never thought id say this but i think dash may replace bitcoin. The writting is on the wall.

[spadman] 11/6/2017 08:40

Just dumped my eth and etc holdings

[oakville] 11/6/2017 08:16

The Ethereum price explosion ultimately signals digital currencies aren’t just flash-in-the-pans; they are morphing into legitimate alternative assets nudging their way into the mainstream.

Arguably, the biggest proof of cryptocurrency transcendence has been the upswing in institutional involvement. This is the “smart” money that generally calls trends correctly. It’s one thing for mom & pops investors to move the needle higher in a limited way, as was the case with early adopters. It’s quite another for price and volume to skyrocket in unmistakable fashion due to billions in cash infusions by institutions investors. Beyond the obvious price appreciation, institutional participation also signals a deeper confirmation of the long term viability of the asset. It tells us all those multinational and governmental pilot projects worldwide are yielding positive results.

Our bitcoin price forecast foresaw the growing sector institutional interest gathering on the periphery. And aside from the conservative nature of the forecast, our prophecy was dead-on.

Frequent CNBC cryptocurrency analyst Brian Kelly has recently suggested Bitcoin’s May 2017 surge past $1,500 was the result of greater institutional demand – particularly from Japan. “The biggest driver right now is you’re starting to see institutional investors take a keen interest in the entire sector,” said Kelly, who himself has launched a digital asset fund for outside investors. Likewise, CoinDesk research analyst Alex Sunnarborg attributed Bitcoin’s price explosion to a spike in global trading volume, particularly from Japan. (Source: Bitcoin jumps to a record, nears $1,500 on a spike in demand from Japan, CNBC, May 2, 2017)

It’s now quite apparent the same institutional interest dynamics buttressing Bitcoin prices have migrated to Ethereum. In hindsight, the reason seems obvious: if you believe in the long-term viability of cryptocurrency sector, it stands to reason multiple “winners”; will emerge, as opposed to just one. With a maximum of 21 million Bitcoins that could ever be in circulation, it’s clear the market could support other alternatives. Clearly, institutional investors have crowned Ethereum next in line.

Early indications of a powerful surge in capital flows could be seen back in March 2017. Vice president for Genesis Global Trading, Martin Garcia, noted that they “started to see institutional investor interest pick up in ethereum, something we hadn’t really seen before.” While other industry gatekeepers noted high-net worth trading in ethereum has picked up considerably. (Source: Ethereum’s Price Surge is Sparking Institutional Investor Interest, coindesk, March 17, 2017)

To demonstrate how powerful institutional-infused investment capital has elevated the Ethereum price, one only has to glean a 2017 daily chart. Prices have entered full mania mode, jumping from just over $8 at the beginning of 2017 to over $300 as of this writing In percentage terms, that’s an increase of 3,650% in only half a year!

Bitcoin’s percentage gain is more modest due to the law of large numbers, but impressive nonetheless. It began 2017 trading around $1,000 in USD terms, but has jumped to $2,820 as of this writing. That’s an increase of 282% which makes it hands-down the top appreciating recognized “currency̶1; in the world.

The last time investors witnessed these types of frenzied moves was during the late 1990’s Tech Bubble. Once institutional money got involved, “modest” moves in equities (pennies to single digits) turned into a full-blown mania (single digits to triple digits; quadruple digits in some cases). A considerable washout of excesses occurred, but the internet winners went on to soar in price to new heights.

We expect the same dynamics are at play with cryptocurrencies today.

Ethereum price up Is? Is It Still A Good Investment 2017?
At these nosebleed levels, investing in ether is not for the faint of heart. As mentioned, prices have increased over 3,100% year-to-date and show no signs of abating. In terms of timing, the low hanging fruit has already been plucked. I would imagine it’s almost impossible to stake a significant position at these levels, no matter how bullish your long terms sentiments are.

But that doesn’t mean you should forget about it either. Rather than focusing on incredible short term price movements, mindsets towards ethereum future value predictions should instead shift to a long term perspective. While the “easy” early-adopter money is gone, we may be only entering the third inning in terms of overall ethereum price outlook.

Why? Because even after this incredible run, total market capitalization is only around $23 billion. For perspective, if Ethereum was a stock, it’s overall value would barely crack the top 300 issues in the S&P 500. With all the business and transaction potential amassing down the pike, ethereum will deservedly command higher valuations than many obscure companies ahead of it should its potential be fulfilled. The last part of that sentence will ultimately tell the story.

Ethereum vs Bitcoin
The Ethereum vs bitcoin debate really comes down to which cryptocurrency is perceived to hold the longest term value. Strong arguments can be made either way, but from our perspective, ethereum has some important characteristics which give it a competitive advantage.

The first of which relates to transaction times. It currently takes about 12 minutes on average to confirm a Bitcoin transaction, while it takes Ethereum is only around 12–15 seconds to do so. Ethereum’s “GHOST” protocol can process greater data loads and in greater speeds than Bitcoin’s peer-to-peer cryptographic protocol. This advantage cannot be understated.

Secondly, Ethereum has the ability to run “smart contracts,” which are code functions which can handle legal functions, data storage, information processes and more. Bitcoin, not so much (although this may be changing soon). This gives Ethereum the prime advantage of added utility over just being a currency. Should Bitcoin not keep pace with Ethereum in this arms race, Ethereum could see better adoption rates.

Looking forward, our ethereum price prediction 2017 is $150, tempered by the unsustainable gains it has achieved thus far. Obviously, we would exercise extreme caution here, as short term prices have jumped ahead of fundamentals. Mean regression could easily take Ethereum price back towards $100 (or firm support at $50) once the mania dies down; similar to the consolidation phase experienced in Bitcoin during its first two bubble runs.

However, we are staunch longer term bulls who truly believe in the transcendent qualities Ethereum and other select cryptocurrencies possess. The sky’s the limit, but we believe investors should now focus on long term accumulation strategies at select price points. Employing this method should yield the best long term results, while avoiding painful “stop out” which can jiggle investors out of positions and tie up capital.

[oakville] 11/6/2017 07:48

The above article was taken from today's Toronto Star.

[oakville] 11/6/2017 07:47

I don't know what a blockchain is and I certainly do not know how they work. I know that they are the technology behind Bitcoin, that they are very clever and that they will have uses beyond digital currency.

Somehow these blockchains are the ledger for all Bitcoin transactions and are the arbiter of who owns Bitcoins. And that pretty much exhausts my knowledge of blockchain.

Probably because I do not understand the technology, I have not yet purchased Bitcoin. There is always a suspicion and wariness of something you do not understand: can I trust this "money"?

After all, isn't money supposed to issued and controlled by governments rather than shadowy computer nerds who are possibly serving black market adventurers?

Bitcoin and the other digital currencies sit outside and government command and regulation.


In fact, there are plenty of instances throughout history of currencies that are not issued or controlled by a government. A small, personal example of this is when I was on an expedition to climb Mt Everest 20 years ago: Base camp was fairly isolated with little opportunity to bring in fresh supplies.

One item, always scarce but critically important, were AA batteries. It got to the point that you could trade just about anything for AA batteries (four AA batteries for a bottle of Scotch). A currency does not have to be issued or regulated by a government.

A currency can be whatever a group of people agrees - and a lot of people have put their trust in Bitcoin.

To own some Bitcoin is to give currency diversification. If there is political or economic Armageddon, it just might be good to own some Bitcoin (a bit like gold).

Like gold, Bitcoin has scarcity value, pays no interest and, also like gold, has its fervent believers. Gold bugs (and some who believe in cryptocurrencies) have an enthusiasm for their products that rivals religious rapture.

Usually the purpose of Bitcoin purchase is to speculate or to diversify. The currency has made a few people rich: Someone who bought Bitcoin in 2010 for US$100 would now, according to CNBC, be sitting on more than US$50m.

Bitcoin has been extremely volatile. There has been rabid speculation that has seen the currency take wild swings up and down. That volatility may be no bad thing for speculators who are encouraged to ride those swings to profit or to loss.

As diversification Bitcoin probably also works. It is possible to imagine an economic crisis that hits some currencies hard but where cryptocurrencies maintain their value.

I will never understand block chain technology but, then again, I do not fully understand how computers on jet aircraft work either and yet most weeks I quite happily get on a plane. So, I will buy some Bitcoin for some diversification and to learn more. I do think cryptocurrencies are here to stay and buying in will help keep me in touch with what they are all about.

[random] 09/6/2017 16:20

valuing cryto currencies is a non trivial exercise for sure.

if intrinsic value is seen as the cost of creating a replacement ... a premium/discount can be calculated.

If trading at a discount there is no incentive for miners, the network hashing fades
etc. While demand outstrips supply from mining, there is likely to be a premium. I guess this is the phase we are in now ...

[mcbeanburger] 09/6/2017 15:22

sometimes as child you don't know what que you're supposed to be in, only to get a double douse

[spadman] 09/6/2017 13:01

I know mcbean trying to explain simple concepts to TP such as money and value is akin to teaching a vaccine damaged 3 year old quantum mechanics.

[mcbeanburger] 09/6/2017 12:16

wasted words spad... I won't have bothered.

interesting note on tulips - the dutch where escaping a devaluating florin. which is where we are now with our paper currencies.

[spadman] 09/6/2017 12:03

Do I really need to spell it out again?

Ok last time.

value
ˈvaljuː/Submit
noun
1.
the regard that something is held to deserve; the importance, worth, or usefulness of something.

Bitcoins usefulness comes from its perfect attributes of money as defined by Aristotle... LOL Aristolte!

1.) It must be durable. Money must stand the test of time and the elements. It must not fade, corrode, or change through time.

2.) It must be portable. Money hold a high amount of 'worth' relative to its weight and size.

3.) It must be divisible. Money should be relatively easy to separate and re-combine without affecting its fundamental characteristics. An extension of this idea is that the item should be 'fungible'. Dictionary.com describes fungible as:

"(esp. of goods) being of such nature or kind as to be freely exchangeable or replaceable, in whole or in part, for another of like nature or kind."

4.) It must have intrinsic value. This value of money should be independent of any other object and contained in the money itself.

backed by thousands of computers it is the Worlds original and most secure blockchain, impossible to counterfeit and infinitely divisible, it weighs nothing so is infinitely portable, the value is intrinsic as the value comes from these attributes provided by the network or bitcoin itself as they are as one, the network provides these attributes in return for Bitcoin. A virtuous cycle TP.

I don't see anyone buying anything with football stickers so why compare? your ill thought through stubborn and frankly pathetic argument could just as well be levelled at Gold or any other accepted form of money throughout History.

Before you pick holes in what I say I would prefer if we can use standard definitions of words such as money, value, intrinsic so please read a dictionary and refrain from using your own custom definitions.

;)

[tpaulbeaumont] 09/6/2017 10:28

ive think my view on its value is quite clear (slightly higher than football stickers ;), yet youve neglected to offer any rationale for the valuation of $1,000,xxx? tbh i havent read any reasoning from any btc boosters that stack up imo

to have a robust model or theory it needs to be impervious to attack in order to save yourself the loss of money/time, explain your valuation and i and any one else can try and pick holes in it from every angle, if we can it may help you refine it into something more pragmatic :)

[spadman] 09/6/2017 10:10

Do you know the definition of value tp?

Didnt think so eheuehu

[tpaulbeaumont] 09/6/2017 09:32

Its unfair to compare btc to tulips, south sea co, east india co, rail bubble etc cos they all existed, even tulips have a value in the eye of the beholder, and as btc does what other crypto does but worse its value is truly in the eye of the beholden and for that reason its closest comparison is the Poyais bubble ;)

[tpaulbeaumont] 09/6/2017 09:30

FOr btc all those figures were bubbles spuds, cos it has no value, stick a limited number of emojis on a blockchain et voila btcredeux