Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Babcock International Group Plc LSE:BAB London Ordinary Share GB0009697037 ORD 60P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  36.20 6.69% 577.60 577.40 578.40 579.40 542.60 544.60 2,621,933 16:35:16
Industry Sector Turnover (m) Profit (m) EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap (m)
Support Services 4,474.8 235.2 39.5 14.6 2,920

Babcock Share Discussion Threads

Showing 1276 to 1293 of 1975 messages
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DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
01/2/2018
15:09
Penycae I accept your point that BAB's margins are screwed down by government and that they can't easily do much about that. But why would an investor choose to invest in a company which is being thus constrained? Why not invest in a company which is not being screwed to the floor. If that's a different sector so what? And having said all that, if the barriers to entry in BAB's sector are so high and the expertise in such short supply, then why accept the Government's unreasonable demands for sub-economic pricing? Why not walk away and let somebody else go broke working for scant rewards? Why compete for non-profitable work?
tournesol
01/2/2018
13:51
You can't compare margins APL vs BAB. Markets are completely different. Most children want an i.phone these days, even while they are still in junior school. If you are decommissioning a nuclear submarine, you are in a very limited market, not dictated by your product/expertise, but dictated by what your customer will pay. Try telling HMG you want a contract on a cost plus 25% basis.
penycae
01/2/2018
11:41
Minerve I don't doubt that BAB is well managed and has lots of expertise, dominance in its niche markets, high barriers to entry etc etc etc. BUT there seems little point having all of the above they don't produce decent margins. Margins DO matter because all projects encounter unforeseen difficulties. The Prussian General Moeltke famously said "No battle plan survives first contact with the enemy". That's why every major project in history has over-run its budget and usually its timetable, as well as under-achieving its objectives. That's just how it is. In addition to the ever-present internal problems of BAB's projects there are of course a raft of external factors - political, brexit, exchange rate, commodity prices, oil prices, exchange rates, interest rates, etc etc etc over which BAB has no control at all. Whilst some of these can be mitigated there is a significant degreee of overall risk. If your margins are juicy, then you can soak up adverse impacts and you can throw resources at unexpected problems. If your margins are thin you simply can't do those things. A margin of 6% is simply not fat enough to cushion you against the shocks of adverse events. If Apple is making 50% on its iPhones and encounters a problem with them they can throw money at it and buy their way out of difficulty, they have room to manoeuvre. Margins of 6% do not allow that. It only takes one unpleasant surprise and your whole profit margin has gone and then you are struggling to break even. That's why margins matter.
tournesol
01/2/2018
11:28
Yump a discussion that acts as an echo chamber for positive views is no use to anybody. I invested here in the 8-900's without (I now realise) having done rigorous enough due diligence and hoping for a bounce supported by the yield and the apparent safety of the earnings pipeline. I got that wrong. When the price weakened I thought it was just weakening sentiment caused by problems elsewhere in the sector, and expected fairly rapid recovery. I got that wrong too. I'm currently pondering selling and accepting a loss - significant in % terms but not too bad in the perspective of my overall portfolio. What I want to help me think this through is a balanced discussion/analysis of the whole picture - strengths AND weaknesses - operational AND investment. You are making a mistake to respond defensively to my rather lightweight comments. Your and my objectives are the same - to make money. If we differ on how to do that we can surely both learn from the each other - particularly because sentiment is really important but difficult to gauge. If you and I express different sentiments then as long as that is done in a civil manner it should help both of us to understand how others are thinking. T
tournesol
01/2/2018
09:53
Good summary Minerve. Talking of long term holdings, BAB is my oldest. No longer remember exactly when I first invested but Lord King was chairman at some point, sometime in 1970's I guess. No longer making boilers for power stations but despite current worries about outsourcing, I remain content to hold until some real evidence for concerns show up.
alter ego
01/2/2018
09:14
What are you here for then ? You won't find much above 6%. There was me thinking margin was just part of the investment equation...
yump
01/2/2018
08:46
Yump I really don't care whether or not BAB's margins are good by comparison with their direct competitors. What matters to me is whether they are adequate by comparison with other investment opportunities I'm considering (in other sectors). I have no obligation to invest in this sector. If all contractors are skating on thin ice then why go out on that particular pond? T
tournesol
01/2/2018
07:32
If anyone is going to quote margins, then its worth looking up what typical margins are in contracting isn't it ? Otherwise the argument is silly and not even based on alternative facts.
yump
31/1/2018
21:59
BAB's an interesting company- I own from £9+. It's not realistically a Capita but at the same time small negatives are adding up (see last few Management updates) that make wait and see a not unreasonable attitude. Hopefully I'll be ok in the fullness of time. On margins, I think they are biased lower by passing through subcontractor costs. One thing I do think has been overlooked is a recovery in the helicopter business!
smcni1968
31/1/2018
21:45
Yup, have to agree with tournesol; an economist in the Sunday Times, who I can only assume knows his stuff, said a few months back that investors don't buy on fundamentals any more but on sentiment and the market simply doesn't like certain shares, which I thought fatuous at the time but now fear he's right and I'm up to my neck in the wrong share.
unclelen
31/1/2018
20:14
Thanks for that douglas fir. I have been buying back, after selling a few when they went above 740. I expect a good trading update on the 6th Feb. I now have 9000 at a price of around 6.74, I will not sell until they reach 740 or more!
alanr1
31/1/2018
17:40
2017: £1.17bn net debt, total revenue £5.21bn, according to their investors page
unclelen
31/1/2018
11:56
Alter ego You say "...comparisons with low margin Carillion type contracting …. are very wide of the mark." Are you sure? BAB's margins seem pretty low to me Only 6% in its largest business segment - LAND and just 10% across its business as a whole. That's not high margin is it? (Source for margin figures is most recent half year results presentation available on BAB's website.)
tournesol
31/1/2018
11:03
If BAB announced a share buy back scheme would that make shorters close their position?
dave whitby
31/1/2018
09:48
Seen the news. WOW - that is poor news.I do think BAB should come our and make a statement - being tarnished with same brush and giving clarity on its financial health, pipeline and pension position is needed
watfordhornet
31/1/2018
09:38
Missed Capita news. What was it
watfordhornet
31/1/2018
09:05
"good news counts for nothing, bad news on a different company in a marginally related area of business, wallop." My sentiments precisely!
oriana2
31/1/2018
09:02
looks like BAB tarred with same brush as Capita this morning.
alter ego
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