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Angel Mining Investors - ANGM

Share Name	Share Symbol	Market	Stock Type
Angel Mining	ANGM	London	Ordinary Share

	Price Change	Price Change %	Share Price	Last Trade
	0.00	0.00%	0.535	01:00:00

Open Price	Low Price	High Price	Close Price	Previous Close
			0.535	0.535

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Posted at 29/3/2013 08:23 by wow400 Reposted with thanks from Moneypenny re the meeting with NH recently: Meeting with Nick Hall 20th March 2013 RNS Oct 2012. Announcement of a delay on delivery of fuel, only one single pour of October due to these consequences an additional $2m from Cyrus all outstanding existing loans from 31 Dec to 15 Feb 13. The total $30.4m plus accrued interest. Cyrus ANGM must pay $ 3.8m on 15th Feb or they will require 75% of Arctic Mining owns share capital of Black Angel mining. What happened? Nick: A formal contract was agreed with Cyrus, we had no choice. If we had been mining the pillars we would have been able to meet the debt (we had not started mining the pillars at that point). We did not sign that agreement without an understanding we could meet the permit conditions. Their insistence to have a notion of 75% of Black Angel for a £1 was nonsense. That would mean having the finance for Black Angel totally impossible, I could not go out and raise the money and say I only have 25% of BAM, and Cyrus were not prepare to put in 75% of the funding Did they make that clear? No not really, I knew why Cyrus wanted to benefit from Black Angel, but they didn't want to put the money in, otherwise they would have done so. I had a meeting with them and MRI last July, where basically I put the proposition for Black Angel forward. I was looking for them for a 3rd of the funding because I got a basic understanding from our broker we could get the rest in a form of a bond and the rest from equity and I thought it needed the collateral from Cyrus and or MRI (company that has the offset agreement) MRI were up for it but they wanted 2 things, a resource statement , we have a lot of geological data before JORC had been invented, ( MRI were happy to accept a report based on the data) so we have an understanding on what the resource was there, but it doesn't comply precisely with JORC. Second thing they wanted was a financial program to show the project was viable at the then prevailing commodity price. At the time of the meeting zinc was $1800 and at that point the project just about breaks even. We all believed this was achievable but it was all based that Zinc price would not stay where it was. A well respected forecaster suggested in a couple of years time Zinc will be 4000oz. The project is viable at 2000oz. One day it will make Black Angel a huge cash generative company, it will make the investment by Cyrus and everybody else relatively small beer. The only way Cyrus can get their money back is and investors can really prosper if the company comes out of administration and Black Angel project succeeds. Why did the financial plan fail to pay off $3.8m to Cyrus? The situation that became the last straw was the first pour in January, it was more than disappointing, we got 5.5kg and it was suppose to have been over 16kg. The samples that we were taking off the feed into the mill was that the grade had got very low (coming from lower end of the upper mountain block) The Geologist was saying this is high grade material, he didn't believe it was low grade as the laboratory was saying. He said "there is an error here, either they are not taking the samples or processing it properly, I can tell you that this is high grade" so we continued mining it, but the Geologist at the end of the day was wrong the laboratory had been right. A very bad mistake so consequently the cash was a lot less in January than originally planned. Apart from our commitment from Cyrus it meant that we had a problem with the tax authorities (not prepared to say the amount) . 3 elements, 1st the regular December payroll, 2nd unpaid taxes 2011 (which we were paying off in instalments) and 3rd holiday pay 12½ %(Greenland law) We didn't quite have enough cash, we could pay 80% and the balance a week later (we still had money coming from the December pour)). Kevin McNair had a good friendship with a chap within the tax authority who agreed this would be ok to do. At 4pm on the Friday the boss at the tax authority said "no it's no good, if you don't have the cash in the bank by Monday morning we will commence proceedings to wind up the company" We contacted Cyrus , they said we can't allow that to happen and to appoint an administrator to prevent the tax authority from being able to get that through the court. I contacted the minister and the lawyer and over the weekend managed to get an agreement with the tax authority, they would post a meeting of creditors that took place on 30th January(about 2 weeks later) Cyrus and myself flew out to Greenland. Along with the General Manager from Nalunaq ,we put together a recovery program to the Tax Authority and they all agreed. Cyrus agreed to back the plan with a drawdown facility so that even if we had a problem with the weather or whatever, there would still be the money there committed. But as part of the overall plan, the creditors were perplexing that money would only be used to operate the mine and generating cash, no money would be used for running the Parent Company, for example; paying the stock broker, stock exchange fees etc. Ours lawyers said under the circumstance to protect ourselves as directors they recommended we file for notice of intention for appointed firm , we had to suspend trading in our shares and the administrator were appointed. Cyrus are supporting the recovery plan (a standstill agreement), at present everyone is focused on operating the mine and generating cash. What is going to happen next I don't know? All sorts of things are possible but it would be dangerous and foolish for me to speculate. I am not getting paid anything by Angel Mining, Arctic Mining or anyone else, I'm still the director of Angel Mining. Everything is effectively being run by the administrator, so I no longer have any authority as a director but I still have responsibility, which is an odd situation to be in. I could resign, our chairman Frank Chapman decided to go, he felt there was no more he could contribute. As far as I'm concerned I have never been in this position before but I felt that I should continue as director of all of the companies, even though I am not getting paid so that if any opportunities arise where I can do something that is in the best interest for creditors, employees or shareholders then I could do it. I'm fairly impotent at present but I am doing what I can. The operations are being managed by Peter Connolly, we have a new CFO Nick Dove who has taken over Kevin McNair who has been made redundant, those guys are reporting directly to the administrator. Did you managed to pay anything back to Cyrus? Everything got taken over in the end by the situation. Apart from the Geologist, there was also a delay in the approval that just got very silly. The Pillar mining only started in February, the mountain block first pour in January was very poor, once they realised they were mining rubbish they quickly switched to high grade still in the mountain block. The pillar mining was signed off earlier than February but we had a guy called Nigel Handley who was head of mining but he quit in early December (personal reasons) . If Nigel had stayed we would have mined the pillars a lot quicker. We then recruited another guy but basically he was not up to the job, so we lost time, we thought we had a really good guy. When he got there he had a really bad knee and couldn't get into the mine, how can you have someone head of mining but couldn't go into the mine? We told him to go. We are now mining the pillars and its going really well. There seems to be some gaps in your pours from October to January? It was not always appropriate to do a news release every time we have a pour, most companies do not do that. I don't mind people knowing what individual gold pours were. I don't quite know why they need to know? Probably because it gives an indication on the income coming in, as a shareholder it's a need for reassurance especially under the circumstances? I'm sorry I just don't remember those particular figures to hand but if the company comes out of administration I am happy to give those figures. Angel Mining plc is the parent company to Arctic Mining Ltd. Black Angel Mining A/S and Angel Mining Gold A/S are Greenlandic Companies and they hold the licences, these companies are like shelf companies that happen to have the permits. Why is all the activities channelled through Arctic Mining Ltd and not the Greenlandic Subsidiaries? The mineral development act requires the Greenlandic companies to have a maximum debt equity ratio of 2:1 so if you are going to develop that means raising funds from the parent company, if you were cascading it down that you would have to a 1/3 of it as equity 2/3 as debt. When you start generating cash you can pay you can pay the 2/3 loan back but you can't pay the equity back. You would end up with a large amount of money trapped. (although I do believe these laws may have changed now) Why are the Arctic Mining accounts overdue? The Arctic Mining Ltd accounts were prepared and audited many months ago but we have been unable to pay the exorbitant audit fee in full and Deloittes were refusing to sign the accounts. A payment has now been made and they have now agreed to sign the accounts and I am informed that they will be filed at Companies House before the end of March. The Arctic Mining website is currently being developed because we are still having to recruit employees, if they go to the Angel Mining website and it has a big administration notice, people will think should I be involved in the company? We still have to buy things off people and if your company doesn't have a website it doesn't look good. We got this up and running from day one as it was something we had to do. I was very concerned to get this done. We did file notice of intention to appoint an administrator for both companies but the Arctic mining has no restrictions on how it may use funds generated from gold sales. Because it has an agreement with the creditors if doesn't need to have further protection, so it became unnecessary. The licences cannot be sold on. A Joint venture would not be my decision, whatever you want to do you have to make an application to the BMP. The BMP are a regulatory body and they have their regulations, if they are not certain and it's a regulation they have never thought about they will have to put it to the minister , if the minister says I am unauthorised to make a decision it could end up with the Greenland Government deciding. There is no president. I am trying to help the Greenland Authority to make themselves more affective , and to do things to enable us the mining people to operate more affective. Has there ever been any interest in a joint venture? No, I personally think joint ventures are difficult, to bring in new money with the current tax laws right now unless we can change the law it's difficult to get joint ventures. We could have and may still have (if it all goes back) a JV with Nuna Minerals. I received the Nuna report in the first week in February, it was an encouraging report and they identified 3 areas where more work should be done. The administrators will have no interest in future development. On the 22nd January you announced you were commercial, but still 25% below forecast? That's because we were still not mining the pillars based on the forecast. Since that date we have not received any more data, are we breaking even now? Nick: No we are much better than that. You have finally got there and now the shareholders stand to lose everything? People have waited so long, been so patient and poured all their money into the company and now it's if you don't actually need us anymore? We have been shut out? We don't know what will happen, I can't comment. Everybody was aware there was secure credit, and therefore with a secure creditor if you're in default they can do all sort of things that are obviously not going to be in the interest of shareholders. 28th of August the permit was received but with conditions. At the AGM you gave out the forecast many shareholders feel was irresponsible bearing in mind you didn't have the final ok? Misleading? I suppose for the benefit of hindsight I wish I hadn't done it but you must appreciate that you can't run a Greenland operation in a different country. I went as often as I could but it would take me a week to just go there for a day. I had to rely on information, some had been better than others. At the time of the AGM I thought that I would share with shareholders the same information that I knew from what the guys in the mine tell me. Surely the guys in the mine understood how the BMP works, they would probably have known there would be hold ups with BMP? With all past experiences they were going to have problems? I think at the time when we got the permit and the conditions we thought there is nothing there we can't deal with, we really didn't anticipate there would be those kind of delays. With the Geologist also saying don't worry plenty more high grade in the mine, (who got it so wrong) Why did he get it so wrong? Because the deposits are difficult to grade, because it's so Nuggety( he did give a very detailed explanation) It was a degree of confidence from YAGM to take shares below par value. How were they persuaded? They were not persuaded, YAGM said they would rather take shares, they wanted to have shares and reduce their debt , how could I say no? I think they are now the largest shareholder, (someone told me that was the case) This part of the conversation was a bit vague to me. Last comments from Nick: If I had been Cyrus I would not have gone down this route. As much as I'd love to make a comment, I don't want to give the impression nothing is being done and nobody is concerned for shareholders, I am concerned and if I can do anything I will. I don't have as much influence as I may have had, I don't want to raise false hopes. I didn't expect to be in this position. I don't blame Cyrus as we have failed to deliver, we have had the support but there does come a time when people say enough is enough, unfortunately as a director of a company you don't know when that point will be until it happens, we have now hit the bucket. As it happens they are still saying carry on with it but taking it from here there is no clear thinking amongst them and if there is nobody is telling me. Read Full Thread Reply
Posted at 17/3/2013 12:19 by layer cake Jaf. You have the right to change your mind as often as you wish about this guy but the fact is it just does not add up. If we allow this negative culture to continue, it is not only the investor that loses, it is the whole nation since the money taken from us never sees these shores. The market relies on numbers and short memories and plays on two human characteristics: greed and weakness. There are good companies out there, the best one for me was and still is GKP. I placed a grand in there when it was at 2 pence and sold at £ 3.80. The CEO never lied and the only worry was Iraq. With gold predictions, the pr stunt on the BBC and the positive RNS being churned out it was easy to see why so many got involved, the difference however especially with the last few RNS, you just know that this piece of garbage was lying. WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHY WE HAVE GONE INTO ADMINISTRATION. Read Full Thread Reply
Posted at 19/2/2013 16:21 by jaf1948 AuDigger, I completely agree with you about the communications - they were and are very poor and certainly were of little use to investors. However the point I was trying to make (obviously not very well !) is that the company would still be in the same state as it is whoever had been running it - with a different BoD I accept we may well have been better informed and maybe some of us would have got out earlier, but for the company itself, the bottom line would have been the same IMHO. Read Full Thread Reply
Posted at 31/1/2013 13:56 by angm 8p to 0p thanx m4us share_shark 30 Jan'13 - 07:36 - 3572 of 3582 0 0 No one liks placings moreforus but there must have been some "is somehow special and different from countless of other aim companies" in CICR for you to have gone to all the trouble last year of POSTING AN ILLEGAL RNS,which you made up yourself last year ?. What for to get in cheaper for a quick buck ?. That is abhorrent in my view. You are talking about a very SMALL placement here not a massive one. What was it you who posted " will go to 2.5p" this am. Glad to be corrected. Investors have long memories and few take you seriously on any thread after that terrible "mistake" you made on here. Read Full Thread Reply
Posted at 25/1/2013 10:08 by gb234 JAFs question 'Who is going to buy these shares?' 'Since even you have realized that there will be a share price death spiral on your predictions,one can assume that every other investor has aswell'.NO every other investor won't necessarilly agree with my analysis,you for one were too thick to believe that suspension was coming.Now you are too stupid to work out how ANGM could place shares,even though I have explained how several times before.Once more so that EVEN YOU can understand how. ANGM consolidates the shares say 50:1,so the new share price is 25p.They then do a deal with someone like Socius who agree to take on shares at a discount aslong as the share price doesn't drop below that discount level.Sound familiar? It is,as it is the same deal Socius had when they reneged on a $3m loan AFTER pre-selling 50m shares into the market, which ANGM never got back yet, as far as I know! This deal is a cert winner for the lender as the shares are pre-sold into the market for a guaranteed profit before the cash is handed over.Are you so senile JAF that you have forgotten that this method to do placings is tried and tested here? Read Full Thread Reply
Posted at 22/1/2013 14:35 by stuart143 Induna it's all very well warning people but we are individuals capable of making our own decisions after dyor surely. The problem most have here is that it's the same diatribe day after day which is now quite frankly monotonous and boring. People that are here in this share are well aware of up and downside dammit he's just a broken record. He would further gain more sympathy/credit from other investors if he wasn't relishing the chance of this going down the toilet one bitter little person rant over Read Full Thread Reply
Posted at 16/1/2013 10:17 by stuart143 if only gb had someone like himself to advise him he wouldn't have lost here "all hail the guru of investing". I am also of the opinion that bad news is currently priced as the drop currently is investors taking their profit on the back of no news contrary to gb's advice we'll soon see Read Full Thread Reply
Posted at 10/12/2012 18:46 by wilba Thanks for your very reasoned response to which i agree and concurr. WRT to the vote. My experience, even with a very hostile collection of aggravated small investors as in Summit. The BOD managed to massage the vote in the direction they needed it. The sad thing is that small investors take all the risk and have none of the insider advatage. It would be fairer if a CEO's personal circumstances were tied to his competance. Maybe they would be more risk averse if it was their pension on the line. Read Full Thread Reply
Posted at 31/10/2012 09:18 by induna123 Obviously the higher the consolidation the better for new investors but less so for existing holders. It's effectively wiping the slate clean. It's a case of what does the board need to do to attract new investment. They have to make it favourable for new investors otherwise why would they bother throwing good money after bad? Read Full Thread Reply
Posted at 31/8/2012 11:19 by hernando2 Smudger I do think that most holders, know the background and history of ANGM including the fact that the last operators abandoned it because it was uneconomical at that time. Additionally any potential new investors can find out most of the information needed to make a judgment on whether or not to invest very easily. Just to say that i fell able to comment because of my history as a holder, I sold a big holding at a 25% loss after the 'lost gold vein' RNS but bought back a smaller holding after the Pillar permit rns. Not so many but I am back as an investor. I find your contribution to the debate rather unhelpful, as it only points out the obvious , that all investors must know. GL Read Full Thread Reply

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