Amryt Pharma Share Discussion Threads

[waterloo01] 07/5/2018 16:00

I believe you are correct re the trials being part of the deal and some money will need to be spent. I was wondering if anyone remembered that detail. Alongside the delay in the trial review to the 4th Q (for good reason) and change in application, which reduces it's potential market it not that surprising the share price is where it is, especially when it appears there is also a large seller.

I think AMYT have a lot going for it, but I suspect any uplift won't really take hold till they get closer to AP101 half time scores. The Gene stuff looks interesting but very early days. All IMO

One thing that might help in bringing a change in sentiment would be ANO Lux type deal. After all they are supporting a sales force of sorts, so it would be a good use of overhead.

[diamondstar1] 07/5/2018 15:39

Mdalos, Papillon, Jimbobtechstock.... firstly, my disclosure that I have not read the annual report... hence I’m pretty ignorant myself.
One of the things I noticed recently was that Amryt announced in late 2017 that they are committed to run the Paediatric Investigational Plan (PIP) for Lojuxta which includes a Ph 3 study in children with HoFH aged 5 - 17yrs. This study, in additional to the animal juvenile toxicology study, will cost at least £2 million to run, in my rough estimation.
What is my point of raising this? Well, people have mentioned numerous times how Amryt had a fantastic deal inlicensing Lojuxta from Aegerion/Novelion. Apart from the 18% licensing fee, I’m wondering whether the requirement to run the Paediatric program was part of the big deal, which should have been Aegerion’s post-marketing commitment. If Aegerion had not outlicensed to Amryt, it would be Aegerion who would be paying for the expensive paediatric development program. Hence, I am wondering whether the profits from Lojuxta sales are now being transferred to certain Amryt subsidiaries (eg Amryt Research) to fund these additional research activities. Hence, Mdalos could be right in that it appears that profits from Lojuxta sales are being channeled to Amryt subsidiaries, resulting in a net loss from Lojuxta sales. But at the same time, I believe these transfers are all fully legal, and that Papillon and Jimbobtechstock are absolutely right that there is nothing sinister going on. My two cents on the matter!

[jimbobtechstock] 07/5/2018 14:30

Very interesting timing for all this raking up of unsubstantiated claims about internal workings of the Group...

[papillon] 07/5/2018 11:44

Spot on JumbobTechstock. Excellent post.

I do believe I was wrong about mdalos. So I apologise to him. I now believe he is genuinely concerned, but RATHER IGNORANT of how listed companies operate. It's a long time since I read a company final report because it's a long time (probably over 12 years) since I held shares directly in a company. Nowadays any shares shares (basically AMYT) I hold are held in a nominee a/c. However when I used to receive them a company final report showing a list of 100% owned subsiduaries was not unusual; in fact I'd say it was the norm. In some rarer cases these subsiduaries might be only partly owned by the company (say 75%, 90%, or 50%). However that is NOT the case with AMYT. They are all 100% owned so there is NO possibility of "profits" being "channelled" elsewhere to the detriment of AMYT shareholders. They are all either directly, or indirectly (via a subsiduary) 100% owned and controlled by AMYT. They also existed in 2016. Some of them are the companies taken over by AMYT in the time between it was founded (late 2015) and the RTO, such as Som. One was incorporated for the Lojuxta licensing deal. The rest are mainly local sales companies, probably set up to market Lojuxta in those areas.

There is NOTHING SINISTER in those subsiduaries, mdalos and why you believed they were set up by AMYT to "channel" profits elsewhere completely baffles me. I can only assume you are a complete novice when it comes to share buying and company knowledge.

Actually quickly reading the report was beneficial and I'd recommend all nominee shareholders to read it. I'll read it in more detail. It explains why the admin, sales & marketing costs are 160% higher in 2017 than in 2016. It's because of the extra costs associated with selling & marketing Lojuxta. As I originally thought AMYT have had to set up a sales & marketing organisation from scratch.

Another thing I noticed was in how few countries in Europe Lojuxta is sold in. Italy seems to be the main market. AMYT (and Aegerion before them) have barely scratched the surface in Europe. I now believe there must still be plenty of growth potential for selling Lojuxta in Europe.

PS. I need to thank, mdalos, for my bothering to read the Final Report for 2017. If anything it's made me even more bullish of AMYT, especially in regard to potential Lojuxta growth prospects.

[jimbobtechstock] 07/5/2018 03:09

Why not join the private twitter group and discuss you concerns in a forum were it won't be seen as public position posting, mdalos?

Facts as I see them:
* costs appear in line with expanding clinical sales and distribution business
* none of the subsidiaries are incorporated in territories famous for masking ownership or accounts so records will be available from the French, Italian, Spanish, German authorities
* subsidiaries are 100% owned and controlled, so profits can only realistically be channelled back to parent. Anything else would be fraud.
* financial statements are consolidated across the group
* stock exchange rules (e.g. transparency for director remuneration, insider knowledge etc) extend to wholly-owned subsidiaries

[papillon] 06/5/2018 23:38

I've had a quick skim through the Final Report, mdalos. I agree it's worth reading. Apart from interesting facts about the reason for the 160% increase of admin, sales & marketing costs for 2017 compared with 2016 (evidently it is mainly due to the Lojuxta sales push) and where Lojuxta was sold (Italy is the biggest market) IT ALSO SHOWS A LIST OF SUBSIDUARIES. ELEVEN IN TOTAL. HOWEVER THAT IS NORMAL FOR ANY LISTED BUSINESS! THERE IS NOTHING SINISTER IN THAT LIST:

Amryt Pharmaceuticals DAC & Amryt AG (previously Birken AG) were mentioned in the RNS dated 17/4/2018 and were ACQUIRED during the RTO

SomPharmaceuticals SA & SomTherapeutics, Corp were also ACQUIRED during the RTO

The remaining 7 subsiduaries listed (one, Amryt Pharma France, is dormant) are just subsiduaries set up to control research & sales areas. STANDARD practice, I'm afraid, mdalos. They were all 100% controlled by the parent company in 2017 and all existed (and were 100% controlled) in 2016.

WHERE DO YOU GET THIS FANTASTIC IDEA THAT THEY ARE BEING USED TO CHANNEL PROFITS AWAY FROM THE COMPANY & IT'S SHAREHOLDERS, mdalos? You're either a liar, or being rather silly. What is it?

[papillon] 06/5/2018 22:23

My shares are held in a nominee a/c, mdalos, so I have NOT received the "full Report". Hence I have no knowledge of these "subsiduaries" you mention. All I know, officially, about the company is gleaned via the RNS's it releases, it's web site and it's AIM admission document. If you care to post a list of these "subsiduaries" I'll be able to give my opinion. I'd be amazed if the "final Report" contains anymore detail than that released in the audited 2017 final results RNS released on 17/4/2018.

I presume others have read the "final Report", yet no one has mentioned these "subsiduaries" you mention. I'm afraid unless you can post a list of these "subsiduaries" I will remain a disbeliever as I DON'T believe that the OFFICIAL, audited, final full year results for 2017, released around 3 weeks ago via RNS, would be allowed to fail to mention such information.

I'm sorry, mdalos, but I think you are lying and you have an ulterior motive for doing so, whether that be a financial motive, or a grudge against the company, or just having a laugh. You are spreading FAKE news. Have you been taking lessons from Donald Trump? :-)

PS. I wonder if the company would take any action against you if they knew of your false claims?

Personally I think your pitiful and ludicrous attempts to "knock" AMYT are laughable. LOL. The "final Report" CANNOT contain important, factual, information that was deliberately omitted from the OFFICIAL final results RNS. That's a FACT!

PPS. Don't bother posting that list as the "final Report is now available on the company web site, as per this statement in the final results RNS dated 17/4/2018, so I'll be able to read it for myself:

"5 Annual Report and Annual General Meeting ("AGM")

The Annual Report for the year ended 31 December 2017 will be posted to shareholders on 4 May 2018 and will be available to download from the Company's website at www.amrytpharma.com on 4 May 2018"

[papillon] 06/5/2018 19:26

Friel is the 2nd biggest shareholder with 12.04% of AMYT shares currently issued, alphabravo. However the largest shareholder, with 22.30%, is Software AG-Stiftung.

Assuming the AP101 phase III trial is successful and receives regulatory approval where would OpenOrphan get the kind of money to buy AP101 (assuming that Software AG-Stiftung would let AP101 go to OpenOrphan)? I can imagine a scenario where AP101 would be sold to a bigger rival, like Amicus, but not a minnow like OpenOrphan. However Joe Wiley wants to grow AMYT; he wont do that selling it's treatments with big potential.

Software AG-Stiftung did sell AP101 to a start up (AMYT) in return for a sizeable share stake AND A LISTING ON THE LONDON STOCK EXCHANGE, but AP101 hadn't yet started phase III trials for EB.

PS. I know what you mean when you state that Friel "still holds a very significant holding in AMYT at 4pps" however I bet he wished he had bought AMYT shares at 4p!! :-). He of course bought (via Raglan) around 21m FAST shares at 4p as he needed to remove a big holder (predator O&G) of FAST shares who could have scuppered his plan to convert FAST from an O&G to a biotech. He needed to pay significantly in excess of the then current FAST share price That pushed Friel's holding (via him & his wife's holding in Raglan) to around 40m shares in FAST (I don't know what he paid for his original holding in FAST)

Following the 8 for 1 consolidation he effectively bought 2.6m shares in AMYT @ 32p (by buying 21m FAST shares at 4p). He currently has 23m shares in AMYT. His 40m FAST shares were converted into 5m AMYT shares so Friel/Raglan obviously bought a further 18m AMYT shares during the RTO. He obviously paid less than 32pps for them!! :-) If I remember correctly, though the RTO placing price was 24p, "favoured" investors (the so called AMYT concert party, that obviously included Raglan, Friel & his wife) were able to buy at a big discount to the placing price. I believe at under 20p. I seem to remember it was around 17p. So Friel is NOT showing a loss on the majority of his AMYT shares at the current share price of 17.50p. Far from it in fact. At the current 17.50p share price he is currently breaking even on the majority (18m out of 23m) of his AMYT shares.

[alphabravo321] 06/5/2018 18:10

I am really curious about the Open orphan IPO Cathal Friel is involved in...It was reported in Irish media recently that the IPO will allow Open Orphan to buy approved drugs from companies (AP101?)...I had a mad thought that Friel could IPO OpenOrphan and then potentially buy AP101, as he still holds a very significant holding in AMYT at 4pps, he would benefit as would we...use one company to benefit his stake in the other...follow the money...IMHO

[greendragon777] 06/5/2018 15:16

Nothing gets past Detective Paps around here! 😀

[papillon] 06/5/2018 14:36

You are correct, JimbobTechstock & Bermudashorts. I think mdalos is engaging in a bit of clever disinformation, for whatever reason. There are NO subsiduaries "channelling" the profits away! I've read the audited final results for 2018 yet again and can find NO evidence to back up mdalos's claim. Also the way the a/c's are set out; cost of sales for Lojuxta (and Imlan) and a separate cost for admin, sales & marketing for AMYT NOT directly linked to the sale of Lojuxta (and Imlan) is NOT unusual; in fact it's the norm for such a company as AMYT with just one revenue stream (mostly Lojuxta sales plus a small contribution from Imlan).

I respect someone with a different opinion of AMYT to me, even if it's a very negative opinion, but what I can't stand is someone making statements, without even a shred of evidence, that are obviously lies to back up their opinion. mdalos is, unfortunately, LYING when he states AMYT are "channelling" profits away to subsiduaries!

I suspect (though obviously can't prove) that mdalos did NOT join advfn last Thursday as his profile states. Rather I believe he's a long term member of advfn, but with numerous aliases. Unfortunately it is so easy to create numerous aliases on advfn; not so on the lse bb's. I think JimbobTechstock is correct and that mdalos has an ulterior motive behind his lies. I wonder if we will hear from him again?

[bermudashorts] 06/5/2018 11:47

Although so far I have only had time to skim read the report but why, how and when subsidiaries were formed is very clearly laid out in the report and these are consolidated accounts for the whole group are they not?

[papillon] 06/5/2018 11:01

It's worth remembering, mdalos, that the way the AMYT a/c's are set out is not unusual (in fact it's the norm!). Have a look at how other AIM listed companies with a revenue stream set out their a/c's if you don't believe me.

AMYT have separately detailed the direct cost of selling Lojuxta (5.373m Euro's) and then recorded separately the Admin, Sales & Marketing costs NOT solely related to the selling of Lojuxta. Don't forget a large chunk of those 10.483m Euro's is related to the admin of AMYT. Look at the AMYT web site and see have many senior execs that AMYT employ. These execs will be on large salaries and, no boubt, have a fully staffed office supporting them. A poster who used to post on here used to call it "snouts in the trough" and I understand his comments, but AMYT is going down a different route to, say N4P, where they are "outsourcing" many of the functions that AMYT are keeping "in house", so these AMYT admin costs are, no doubt, unavoidable.

Also the sales & marketing costs in that 10.483m Euro's are NOT solely directed at selling Lojuxta. In fact, as the company states, they are gearing up their sales & marketing organisation primarily to sell Episalvan (if it passes phase III and receives regulatory approval as a treatment for EB). AMYT are also gearing up to manufacture Episalvan. Also AMYT expect to secure more Lojuxta type licensing deals in the future so a sales & marketing organisation not solely linked to selling Lojuxta is essential.

[jimbobtechstock] 06/5/2018 08:44

On a separate point it's true after a downtrend lasting nearly a year that much of the short term market will be trading this bearish. If (and it's still an 'if') this is the last of the seller and this seller has been responsible for most of the last 7 months' downtrend (Harris' no-sale lasted 18 months and then 6 further months of orderly selling restrictions) then we might see an end to the downtrend.

At that point, and I've been doing this for 10 years or so now, it's typical to see various new faces turn up on forums shouting the company down. Timing etc would indicate these are the bears left with a short position to close (understandable given the downtrend) or accumulators wanting in at the bottom of cycle.

[jimbobtechstock] 06/5/2018 08:40

It's the distribution chain. Doesn't look too high for pharma to me but others might have a view? Bearing in mind these are the in-country sales teams which are specialists, going out talking to the physicians.

I'm thinking of going to the AGM so maybe something to raise there if you're truly concerned?

[papillon] 05/5/2018 23:36

We're honoured, mdalos. You joined advfn on Thursday and your first post is on AMYT! Your name's not Alan Harris by any chance? LOL. Only joking (I think!). :-)

You make some valid points, mdalos. I to noticed that revenue was 12.778m Euro's for 2017, whilst cost of sales was 5.373m Euro's leaving a gross profit of 7.405m Euro's. Of course that profit disappears and turns into a 3.078m Euro's loss when Admin, selling and marketing expenses of 10.483m Euro's are taken into account! It doesn't sound good, but I think one has to take into account the fact that AMYT has had to set up a marketing and sales organisation from scratch to sell Lojuxta. That costs money. Probably some of those initial start up costs wont be repeated. The important thing is now that AMYT have set up a marketing & sales organisation those costs shouldn't increase significantly when (and if) AMYT complete another Lojuxta type licensing deal.

"What do all those subsidiaries do... who "owns" them and actually benefits from Funds channelled through them ?" What subsiduaries are you talking about, mdalos? Could you please elucidate? I don't see any mentioned in the final results RNS dated 17/4/2018 apart from the vehicles, such as Amyrt DAC & Amyrt AG, set up to facilitate the RTO..

[jimbobtechstock] 05/5/2018 18:58

Som Therapeutics is the only entity which Harris was the sole shareholder (at least my view from the admission doc) therefore the fact Harris is the sole respondent could mean the action is limited to SOmtherapeutics (to which only a relatively small consideration was paid at RTO and affects only AP102 from my understanding of the docs)

[papillon] 05/5/2018 18:15

The following is from the AMYT admissions document. I wonder what in the following has led to the court case against Alan Harris? Seeing he's the only defendant is it to do with Somtherapeutics rather that SomPharmaceuticals, seeing Alan Harris was the sole shareholder in the former, but not the latter?

10.2. Som SPAs
Amryt entered into conditional SPAs to acquire each of SomPharmaceuticals S.A and
Somtherapeutics, Corp on 15 December 2015 and 4 December 2015 respectively (together the “Som
SPAs”). Under the terms of the Som SPAs, Amryt will:
• pay a maximum sum of US$100,000 in cash in respect of the acquisition of Somtherapeutics,
Corp (of which Alan Harris is the sole shareholder) less Somtherapeutics, Corp’s liabilities to the
extent that these are more than $150,000; and pay US$4.15 million in respect of the acquisition of SomPharmaceuticals S.A in new ordinary
shares in Amryt, in respect of which the Som Sellers will receive 12,277,102 Consideration
Shares under the Acquisition Agreement.
These new ordinary shares in Amryt issued pursuant to the Som SPAs will be acquired by the Company
pursuant to the Acquisition Agreement. Further details on the Som SPAs are set out in paragraphs
10.2.6 and 10.2.7 of Part IX of this document.

[papillon] 05/5/2018 17:52

Again there is some very good investigative work on the lse bb:

Notperfect
Posts: 266
Off Topic
Opinion: No Opinion
Price: 17.50
RE: Trial by jury Today 15:06



Perhaps this will not proceed to jury trial. Settlement negotiations have been underway, to be reported by 1st June. Amryt may have been using this route to encourage settlement of some contract dispute with Harris.

Bronxville
Posts: 210
Off Topic
Opinion: No Opinion
Price: 17.50
RE: Trial by jury Today 16:00 The web is amazing tool.
No hiding anymore.
So did Som executives sell shares to settle with Amyrt?

Bronxville
Posts: 210
Off Topic
Opinion: No Opinion
Price: 17.50
The cat is out of the bag! Today 17:37 I'm sure there will be an update Tuesday.
Then again maybe theres a gag order.

What's your opinion of these 3 posts, JimbobTechstock? Could we see AMYT start to re-rate next week, starting Tuesday? Do you think that Alan Harris has sold his AMYT shares in order to get the cash necessary to settle with AMYT? I wonder about the nature of the complaint? Surely AMYT must reveal all, via RNS, sometime soon?

[jimbobtechstock] 05/5/2018 17:18

Before jumping to conclusions I wanted to read the court filings - unfortunately because I don't have a US payment card I have to wait to have my address verified by post but if anyone does have a PACER account and can brief the group it would be welcome.

[papillon] 05/5/2018 11:24

Just saw this excellent find posted by Bronxville on the lse bb:



So AMYT have taken Alan Harris to court in the USA. "The plot thickens"! Som Pharma was based in Switzerland, but it did have a subsiduary (Som Therapeutics) incorporated in Florida. Is that why the court case is being fought in the USA? Could AMYT win damages from Alan Harris?

I wonder what AMYT's "beef" with Alan Harris is? Do they believe they were sold a pup when they bought Som Pharma? I wonder why AMYT never issued an RNS when this case was filed?

EDIT: Another good post by Bronxville on the lse bb
Bronxville
Posts: 208
Off Topic
Opinion: No Opinion
Price: 17.50
RE: Trial by jury Today 13:20 Anyone going to the AGM in June?
I think a good first question would be
Why did management withhold this vital information in it annual report?