1ST Dental Laboratories Share Discussion Threads

[bbbb] 04/9/2006 08:47

sf: the share price chart illustrates another fantasy aspect of possibly flawed
or otherwise unsuccessfully executed strategy. if liquidity had allowed it might have been theoretically possible to make more money from trading the consensus as to whether they would succeed or not than from the underlying businesses.

when excess money seeking a return is pumped into businesses trying to reorganise an industry with the objective of extracting greater profit overall than hithertofore, the result may not always be as hoped. and along the way, the
management cycle can generate disappointment as well as pain and disruption, not necessarily all for the greatest good.

[silverfern] 04/9/2006 08:20

bbbb my point is that the management has singularly failed to do the one thing they had to do with the money; that is, spend it and then make the acquisition worth more than the money they paid for it. That is a simple enough objective and their failure is self-evident. THey are pretty thick imho.

[topvest] 31/8/2006 22:14

Hi Hybrasil. Been in this one for 3 years or so - they haven't been able to deliver profits - one excuse after another!

[hybrasil] 30/8/2006 23:05

topvest
we meet again
I was looking at this. Havnt bought any but I like the idea. Ithink having seen what you say that I'll stay away for the time being.

[topvest] 30/8/2006 22:43

Sold mine today. Nothing positive in the results in my view. Same old story of paying high prices for acquisitions that don't make any profits. In fact, prospects seem to be getting worse given that the revenue falls were only experienced from April - (i.e. only included in 2m of the interims). Good luck to those that remain, but you may need it with this one!

[bbbb] 30/8/2006 15:07

sf: it's early days to say the strategy doesn't work. but history
shows it hasn't been the evolutionay destiny of the industry,
possibly for reasons pointed out before, and fairly obvious to
clients, or customers as they are called nowadays.

customers in a relationship business mainly want accurate and safe
delivery to their timetable of what they prescribe, and may be resistant
to the notion of paying more for bells and whistles they didn't
necessarily want.

[silverfern] 30/8/2006 11:34

bbbb - you are saying in effect ditch the entire strategy on which the company was founded, namely to make acquisitions value add! AS they appear unable to run any kind of business with any kind of talent I think you might end up right. NOt at these prices though.

[bbbb] 30/8/2006 08:07

those challenges might be better addressed by small flexible units...

I wonder if we will see deconstructing with management buy-outs of
recently acquired businesses which don't fit the current strategy?

like the estate agency sell-offs by those who placed over-reliance
on 'synergy' and cross-selling,after the wave of consolidation in
that industry in the late '80's.

that could have a positive spin if it clears the decks for a new
wave of enhanced profitability from a smaller cost base...if one ignores
the competition from the liberated facilities.

[muffinhead] 29/8/2006 23:59

Topvest there is value in the company but a three year view is needed. The nhs effect is the biggest danger. Running up further losses, poss £500,000 by november will increase gearing to 60% when it was only 33% 12 mths ago. IMO operational costs need radical trimming across the group, waiting until competitors are also having a tough time or close and then eventually increasing prices to private and nhs dentists. It will be mid 2007 before the full effects of the nhs dental contract is known and dentists contracts will be up for renewal in 2009. The nhs work will need replacing with private demand. All will take time.

[topvest] 29/8/2006 20:54

I am embarassed to say that I still hold some of these. Not a big holding I am glad to say and might be a useful tax loss now. Rubbish results and an even worse commentary. The Chairman could make a business in receivership sound like it had good growth prospects. Just come out and say it straight - the results were rubbish and we messed-up! Comments like "cash positioned strengthened with an inflow from operations of £112,000" ignore the £112k interest and £259k capex. The list of very positive "highlights" don't somehow seem to be consistent with the woeful trading and £1,179k loss in 6m.

[muffinhead] 29/8/2006 20:54

From ongoing activities:

Full year loss to 30 Nov 02 185,000

Full year loss to 30 Nov 03 344,000

Full year loss to 30 Nov 04 140,000

Full year loss to 30 Nov 05 250,000

(Half year loss to 31 May 06 229,000 not including the cash hole left in the balance sheet of £540,000 due to newbury)


?? full year Nov 06 loss 500,000 with nhs effect

[muffinhead] 29/8/2006 10:35

offer has moved up but not so generous on the bid, mm's must be expecting some hot money ;-)

[muffinhead] 29/8/2006 10:22

P morning from mr gloom! Not a pi in FDT but have an interest in the sector and have followed the events at oasis.

Interested to know what the market value is for the intangible asset value (13p of todays offer price of 17p)

Rushed to rationalise the lab market, FDT has overpaid for goodwill. The nhs issue is a greater worry. As you suggest a squeeze on incomes will affect the private side also. Downgrades, writeoffs and redundancies?...interesting to read chairmans statement on outlook..."The outlook is certainly not poor"

Return on capital employed is -2%....absolutely lousy £ fundamentals....next 12 mths will be difficult and very difficult to predict.

[pugugly] 29/8/2006 08:40

Quick and dirty analysis of interims:-

Cash managemetn much better. New FD performing well at the operating level. Debtor days down to 66 from 79 in comparable period last year.

NHS changes at Primary Care Trustsahve had and will continue to have a very major negative effect especially given the reduction in middle class disposable income from the increase in taxation (particulary Council tax) and primary services such as gas, electricity etc. ALSO managment comments about lack of anticipation of such a major effect is damming given that this board was much more accurate -

Newbury effect cannot be split out as all data given on an annualised basis.

Looks as though going to continue to buy businesses but given previous record a negative factor (imo) as currently making a marginal loss at operating level before goodwill write offs - especially as the bulk of theassets are good will.

Will be interesting to see the House Broker take on these results, if someone could post.

All imo & dyor but in broker speak I would suggest a very weak hold. Views?

[hosede] 24/8/2006 15:20

Should have good long term prospects though - consolidation of this sort is normally beneficial and tooth decay isn't going away for a while yet. Bought in for a few at 14.75

[muffinhead] 19/8/2006 10:14

Net tangible asset value per share 4p of current share price. Sorry guys but if profits remain negative, same or worse, this share may bottom at about 8p. It could get there pretty pronto as liquidity is small.

DLA figures show a trend. The DLA has suggested that the government looks at changed prescribing patterns of dentists post new contract.

Another company suggestion...change the name from 1st Dental Lab. Even Heiniken tag line reads "probably the best beer in the world". Drop the "1st" as it gives the wrong impression.

I rang my local 1st dental lab (Aesthetic Dental Lab, Harrogate) to get bank details 2wks ago so I could settle my lab account by BACS. Answerphone message twice over 30min period where "on other line" message given. When my nurse phoned back 1 week latter, receptionist said she would ring back with details,,, never did. My nurse rang back other day and finally got the details.This is supposed to be the head office.

Next 2 weeks will be interesting but wider problems of lab industry could drag on for much much longer.

[Abuse team] 18/8/2006 18:37

Post removed by ADVFN

[muffinhead] 18/8/2006 18:31

figures from the DLA showing the following.............

up to the 22nd May from the 1st April

NHS Denture work down 79%
Private Denture work up 52%

NHS Chromes down 91%
Private Chromes up 21%

NHS Bonded crowns down 79%
NHS Precious Bonded down 86%
NHS Veneers down 73%
NHS Yellow gold crowns down 38%

NHS Non Precious metal crowns down 61%
Private bonded crowns up 17%

NHS Denture repairs down 34%

Single tooth dentures up 61%

These are validated figures from DLA and I understand over 99% have
placed staff on reduced working hours and 5 of the members have
closed down since the contract started.

[jaguarboy] 18/8/2006 15:39

At last L2 moving up, now 2 v 1 at 13/16

[spaceparallax] 15/8/2006 09:38

Only 2 wks 'til we hear and at least the fall appears to have halted.