W.h. Ireland Share Discussion Threads

[harry_david] 14/4/2024 09:45

Panther, there are obviously parts of the business underperforming but the part we use is very good. There are too many of the former going by group results but the outlook for the area we use is improving. Maybe that will be enough to get things on track.

[markgordon1] 14/4/2024 07:03

I don't know

[harry_david] 13/4/2024 22:20

oceans4, you clearly know the business better than I do, we think highly of the people we deal with, but AUM and the other areas you mention are outside my knowledge.

[oceans4] 13/4/2024 21:24

I gather you're referring to the capital markets arm. The business has quite an unconventional mix of services, blending corporate broking, traditional stockbroking, wealth management and an IFA. The structure might work if it was a large business with decent management in place and a war chest at the ready, but i guess it would be a decent business if this was the case. Oversight by individuals with limited understanding of their respective areas is the bit that's finishing off the business at this stage in my view. Philip Wale understands or has contacts in corporate broking, but I'm not sure he understands the other areas. And the other guy brought in to oversee the other half of the business is an ex banker. He won't have a clue. It takes a years to understand how a stockbroker, wealth manger and ifa operates. He might have a grasp of wealth management, but its going to be coming from a banking perspective. It really needs to be someone who understands from an IFA perspective.

[harry_david] 13/4/2024 20:45

One more thing I would mention. They are strong in the mining sector. This has been very difficult recently but is showing good signs of revival lead by gold, silver and copper. The first two have had a phenomenal rise in price over the last two months, if maintained they will be in lotto-land.

[oceans4] 13/4/2024 17:46

Possibly. The IFA side, Harpsden Wealth Management, could be worth a bit. I wonder why this side of the business isn't raising assets for the business as a whole as I seem to recall they were bought with a good chuck of AUM. An IFA business would certainly be in the best position to raise AUM. The whole business model doesn't make any sense to me.

[harry_david] 12/4/2024 22:25

I am just a client, number two for us. They are definitely good at their business,be sorry if they go.

[markgordon1] 12/4/2024 22:02

All agreed. But a book of clients is worth something. As I wrote earlier the shares are not for me.

[oceans4] 12/4/2024 20:54

WH Ireland, is a dying stockbroking business, lagging behind modern standards by about 10 to 15 years. The current state of affairs likely resembles a chaotic mess, with incomplete records, outdated systems, and dusty draws full of detriment. Given the size of their Wealth Management team, it seems improbable that they can adequately serve a client base with diverse needs while staying compliant with regulator. Acquiring such a business would seem ill-advised for any amount.

[markgordon1] 11/4/2024 22:50

Probably worth 10 to 15 million. But depends on run rate of losses and how much of the emergency fund raise is left. Also factor in redundancy costs resulting from being acquired. It's certainly worth something. Not easy though

[markgordon1] 11/4/2024 22:45

Only 48% is discretionary management. Might get 2 percent for that.Advisory and execution are significantly less valuable.But I don't know. Maybe it's cheap but it's small and corporate buyers want at least 1 billion of discretionary assets

[pitbear] 11/4/2024 18:33

even at 750m, which has to be ultra conservative given market performance since last update, that should still offer 100% upside from here on basis there are a lot of consolidators paying 3% and above for AUM. the company, as highlighted by others, has publicly stated it is exploring sales yet the market isn't buying it..
Or is it just an odds game - 50% probability it is sold for £20m and 50% probability it goes to zero. efficient markets and all that....

[markgordon1] 11/4/2024 08:53

It will be less than 900 million today given the high profile manager resignations. I would question if it was as much as 750 million. This one is not for me. Revenue is reversing and when that happens it is difficult to turn. Even with the best management in place. Look at Premier Miton, Jupiter, Standard Aberdeen

[panther21] 10/4/2024 22:00

Sorry to disappoint you Pitbear but if you actually study the accounts they only have 960m under Discretionary management in the U.K. at best worth 3percent say27m if it was a sound profitable business. The spin they put on the numbers is one reason they have lost credibility. If it were worth that much with a market cap now of only 10m it should have been sold already in the shareholders interest. But in whose interest was a huge rights issue at 3 p with yet more options for the wonderful managers of this serially loss making business which has apparently been poised for recovery for the last 10 years. Will the new Chairman wield the knife and turn it round .Let's hope so.

[harry_david] 10/4/2024 16:31

Pitbear, you may be right, Kuvare fund managers has just been bought for a valuation of 5% of funds under management, $1 billion for $20 billion.
WHI have about £2 billion so worth maybe £100 million.

[pitbear] 10/4/2024 14:35

The value of the business is entirely within the wealth business where there is some recurring revenue. The corporate side is worthless in the market’s eyes.

[harry_david] 10/4/2024 10:20

On a brighter note several people we speak to are seeing some encouraging signs going forward.

[harry_david] 10/4/2024 10:16

Business generally is very quiet right now in small caps, the head of Peel Hunt was negative about their situation last week.

[panther21] 10/4/2024 09:54

Last year we had a trading update on 3rd April on year end. None so far this year. Why not? But we are only shareholders . Has it turned the corner or will there be a sixth rescue rights issue?

[harry_david] 26/3/2024 10:28

Can't speak for the whole business but am a frequent customer of the broking side and occasional corporate. They provide excellent service and appear busier than direct competitors. Let's hope they persevere.

[panther21] 26/3/2024 09:57

It's in the co placing docs " prior to the placing the group had explored asset sales"As the company does not own any property this can only have been trading parts of the business in whole or in part. It is widely known in the city that talks have taken place.

[harry_david] 26/3/2024 09:32

Who said it was up for sale for twelve months? Market is tough but they appear to be cutting costs and gaining ground in corporates.

[panther21] 25/3/2024 12:56

Year end coming up end March . Loss probably circa £4.5m. Will it ever end? Perhaps new Chair will insist on some transparency about the situation.No one prepared to bid after up for sale for 12 months.

[harry_david] 29/12/2023 15:23

They appear to be much more active in both corporate work and in broking. These hang together so outlook has to be much improved. Don't understand AUM but if costs reduced should shape up.