Premier Miton Share Discussion Threads

[riverman77] 12/4/2024 18:20

I wouldn't say the update was anything of a surprise - still seeing outflows although as expected market movements helped to offset this. Not a huge fan of PMI as funds looks pretty average and generic, but did decide to take small position couple of weeks ago at 54p as felt too cheap. Will probably hang on as the sector seems to have some momentum now as flows expected to gradually pick up. Have a much bigger position in POLR which I think is a much better outfit and more specialist funds.

[undervaluedassets] 12/4/2024 14:14

Well the news from the company today flies in the face of what a lot have been saying on this board.

As the mood music has been so negative here ...a reflection largely of the share price.. the update today has come of something of a surprise .. and we have been rewarded with an 8% leap in the share price.

PMI are not the only ones seeing some share price accretion after an extended downturn. Liontrust also doing somewhat better as is the much downtrodden LTI.

Asset managers have a very strong beta and are in my opinion are largely oversold.

[chrisdgb] 12/4/2024 11:27

A few market tweeters have picked up on the better momentum of AIM recently, FTSE through 8,000 should all set this up nicely.......

[parvez] 12/4/2024 09:59

Sounds like it and likely breakout soon imho

[bmcollins] 12/4/2024 09:21

A much more reassuring AUM statement today than we have seen recently, now at 60p bid have we perhaps passed the bottom and are now on an upward trajectory ?

[eigthwonder] 02/4/2024 11:57

Employee share option schemes mature in March - I reckon there were more shares for sale than there are buyers and Investec are warehousing stock

[mister md] 02/4/2024 11:14

Looks tempting re: dividend but scanning through RNS don't see any Director buys - just options/bonus schemes etc. So will probably give it a miss.

[riverman77] 28/3/2024 09:47

Any reason for the recent further weakness? As you can see from my previous posts, I'm not much of a fan, but I guess everything has a price, and PMI do have loads of cash (so the double digit dividend should be secure for the foreseeable future).

[1knocker] 22/3/2024 09:56

Riverman, yes the pros look at 5 year returns and the muppets at 1 year returns.

[riverman77] 22/3/2024 09:39

Sorry but their funds are not mostly outperformers. Check out their funds are most are 3rd or 4th quartile over 3 and 5 years - the key measure that will drive flows. They annoyingly keep trotting out this statistic that their funds are performing strongly since launch or FM tenure, but this should be ignored as skewed by survivorship bias (ie poor funds will be closed down and poor FMs replaced). Their funds look incredibly generic and don't know why anyone would invest with them.

[spectoacc] 22/3/2024 07:58

Some truth there - and the US has never been more bullish than now, barring perhaps 1999.

But the problem all asset managers have is the constant stream of redemptions.

However, that's definitely producing some bargains IMO - things being sold down like CORD, LABS, GSF.

[bmcollins] 22/3/2024 07:34

@Specto
Realistically when I read comments of negativity on markets, especially when they are in a dull mood as now, it always cheers me up, markets always turn up when negativity is high and the reverse is true when we are all bullish.

[spectoacc] 22/3/2024 06:57

Net £108bn taken out of the UK market the past two years - the first time ever it's been negative for two successive calendar years.

Money still pouring out, and will continue to for the foreseeable - c.100k a month come off fixed rate mortgages onto much higher rates, why would you invest/fund an ISA/make pension contributions ahead of keeping your house?

So no - no charge into the markets. If there's any FOMO, it'll be directed at the US, where new highs have followed new highs.

[undervaluedassets] 21/3/2024 17:16

Markets charging today.

The asset managers will follow the broader indices' explosion upwards as everyone charges into the market because of FOMO. Asset managers are the gatekeepers to the market, aren't they? And this is one of the best. ..the funds they run are mostly outperformers

And don't worry chaps (I think it is mostly chaps isn't it?)... active management will never go out of fashion.

Why? Cos most investors nurse the thought ..rightly or wrongly .. that they can beat the market...

.. Including .. ahem.. us. Otherwise why would we be invested here?

[neilyb675] 08/3/2024 09:08

58.00 - 59.00 (GBX) at 08:02:40
on Market (LSE)

[eigthwonder] 26/2/2024 18:03

I would be very interest in reading the John Authers article, but here is my take. Mid cap trackers have an in-built advantage in that they bank profits of promoted companies but FTSE 100 has had a habit of blow ups and disappointments from its largest companies - remember VOD was over 10% of the index at one point and has frittered away taking index performance with it. Active fund managers, including PMI managers, tend to be underweight the largest companies as to outperform an index you have to look different from it, and betting against the largest constituents is a sure way of doing that. Passives therefore have problems of owning highly priced disappointments which have a disproportionate weighting, and there is a sound argument that at some point so much money is held in passives that active managers will be able to outperform due to increased price inefficiencies from lack of research. But.....I am not convinced we are there yet - if you are a global asset allocator, why bother taking a 50:50 chance on an active manager when you can guarantee parity against the index through a tracker, why bother sticking your neck out on (say) an apparently cheap market which is just off the mainland of Europe when your call on Apple alone within the S&P is more meaningful? The largest companies in the largest market with the largest passive share (I think) are now so dominant they have a degree of self-perpetuating momentum about them. So active managers who have a tendency to bet away from the largest companies face an uphill battle to re-attain their place in asset allocators' minds. BTW The logical corollary to this is...if the largest companies are to underperform it will be because there is a meaningful exit from equities as a whole.

[neilyb675] 26/2/2024 13:56

58.00 - 61.00 (GBX) at 08:07:54
on Market (LSE)

[giltedge1] 26/2/2024 12:05

The advantage of Passives is 1 low cost & 2 disciplined approach, forced to buy up & coming companies every 3 - 6 months & forced to sell laggards. Most Fund managers hang on to losers & say it will turn around (loss aversion). Have been studies showing most shares when on a downward spiral fail to return to previous levels, are exceptions of course.

[riverman77] 23/2/2024 16:14

In theory, but people have been saying that for years and passives consistently outperform - this is partly due to the momentum effect and could eventually go into reverse. John Authers did a good piece on this recently.

[riverman77] 23/2/2024 14:10

Ah but the difference is that active funds now have a formidable competitor in the form of passives, so you really need to stand out if you want to be successful.

[bmcollins] 23/2/2024 13:42

@dexdringle
Very droll, I love that post !

[dexdringle] 23/2/2024 13:24

....same with supermarkets. They all sell basically the same stuff. Absolutely ridiculous. None of them are ever going to make any money doing that 🙄

[riverman77] 23/2/2024 11:27

Yes I have done my research. I see that statistic rolled out every time and it's not a good measure - if you measure performance since launch or FM tenure there is a huge amount of survivorship bias - poor funds get closed down and poor fund managers replaced so these numbers always look flattering. Better to look at 3y and 5y numbers and they are poor - that is what most investors will look at and drive flows.

The other problem with PMI funds is they lack any sort of differentiation - dozens of identical UK equity funds - there are literally hundreds of similar funds out there so why on earth would I want invest in one of their funds?

[bmcollins] 23/2/2024 10:38

@riverman
You stated "lousy funds with pretty sh-t perfotmance across the board", are you sure you did your research before posting ?
Last update from PMI on 12 Jan, just 6 weeks ago, states "75% of funds in top or 2nd quartile of their respective sectors since launch or fund manager tenure", I don't see how you can call that lousy...