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CLDN Caledonia Investments Plc

3,250.00
-25.00 (-0.76%)
18 Mar 2024 - Closed
Delayed by 15 minutes
Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Caledonia Investments Plc LSE:CLDN London Ordinary Share GB0001639920 ORD 5P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  -25.00 -0.76% 3,250.00 3,255.00 3,275.00 3,275.00 3,260.00 3,265.00 40,529 16:35:24
Industry Sector Turnover Profit EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap
Trust,ex Ed,religious,charty 183M 142.9M 2.6142 12.47 1.78B
Caledonia Investments Plc is listed in the Trust,ex Ed,religious,charty sector of the London Stock Exchange with ticker CLDN. The last closing price for Caledonia Investments was 3,275p. Over the last year, Caledonia Investments shares have traded in a share price range of 3,110.00p to 3,700.00p.

Caledonia Investments currently has 54,664,000 shares in issue. The market capitalisation of Caledonia Investments is £1.78 billion. Caledonia Investments has a price to earnings ratio (PE ratio) of 12.47.

Caledonia Investments Share Discussion Threads

Showing 676 to 700 of 700 messages
Chat Pages: 28  27  26  25  24  23  22  21  20  19  18  17  Older
DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
13/3/2024
13:49
The fact is markets are not rational - for whatever reason there is currently a 38% discount on the shares, but if you drill down you realise this means the private assets are being valued on a 60% discount, which clearly makes no sense.
riverman77
13/3/2024
12:21
CousinIT, what you are effectively saying is that the investment company discount applies to cash as well as other asset classes. Hence, if cash is held at a 20% discount, you will get an improvement in share price simply using the cash at face value. Logically, if markets were efficient then no discount would apply to cash but as we know markets are not efficient, we can improve valuations simply by spending the cash.
lowtrawler
13/3/2024
11:52
Trawler - I'd normally agree, but there is almost certainly an investment company sector discount being layered on top.

So in you example, the private assets can probably be really sold for at least 80p/£ to obtain an accelerated exit, so through buying back shares that imply it's 50p is genuinely accretive in a world where the sector discount eventually unwinds

cousinit
13/3/2024
11:19
There is a danger that buybacks using low or zero discount to NAV assets (cash) to buyback shares that are heavily discounted to NAV does not change the overall situation

e.g. consider a trust with £100 cash and £100 of private equity assets. It trades at zero discount to cash and a 50% discount on the private equity assets - so has a market value of £150 and overall discount to NAV of 33%.
The company spends £50 buying back 1/3 of the shares, they then have £50 cash and £100 private equity assets with a market value of £100. The £50 spent has not altered the discount or changed the value of the shares.

The only way to improve shareholder value from buybacks is to use assets that are discounted to NAV for the buyback

eg, as per above except they monetise 50% of the private equity assets in order to buyback the same £50 of shares. They end up with £100 cash, £50 private equity assets and a market value of £125 which creates a higher share price and lower discount.

lowtrawler
13/3/2024
10:54
Riverman, I believe they have the firepower, but a bit like the position CGT were in they don't currently have the legal authority following the AGM. They would need to have another vote that the proxies wouldn't block to be able to start buybacks
cousinit
13/3/2024
10:39
With the Cayzer family still owning 48% of the almost £3 billion trust and an unbroken 55 year run of rising dividends I'm quite happy to stick with this as I feel they know what they are doing. I've noticed over the years that the price seems to spend quite long periods of time range bound and then suddenly spends 6 month steadily rising to a new area.
With unrealised capital gains and dividends over the last 3 years my returns amount to 8.3% p.a. which for a small diversification in my portfolio is quite satisfactory.

apparition1
13/3/2024
10:33
You're right, compared to the other PE funds CLDN seem to be making very little effort to tackle the discount, eg through buybacks. Hopefully they might announce something, but probably won't hold my breath. They have plenty of cash so certainly have the capability if they wanted to.
riverman77
13/3/2024
10:29
I'd just add, at current discounts I'd prioritise RCP over CLDN as they are buying back shares (admittedly, at a lower discount) but once there are some PE realisations I would expect the buyback to accelerate (so either would be accretive to NAV or start to close the discount)
cousinit
13/3/2024
10:25
I think at the recent AGM the approvals required to permit share buybacks were not passed, so the lack of life in the shares may be related to that. Most of the private equity funds which have had a bounce are, to greater or lesser degrees, buying back shares. Market seems to want a catalyst to buy currently, given the plethora of wide discounts available.
cousinit
13/3/2024
09:23
The direct private holdings all seem to be trading well, with the exception of Cooke Optics which was hit by the writers strike. This sounds like a one off, and in any case they cautiously marked the valuation down by 15%. AIR serv is trading ahead of expectations according to last update. The only one I'm not too keen on is the pubs business but this only accounts for around 5% of NAV.
riverman77
13/3/2024
09:11
They also have private investments,
such as the air tyre business acquired last year, they own a small pubs business, etc.

Perhaps the market applying a hefty discount to those..?.

essentialinvestor
13/3/2024
09:06
Most of the PE funds have rerated a bit recently, while CLDN has gone the other way, so starting to look interesting as a trading opportunity if nothing else. About a third is in public equities so CLDN normally trades on a tighter discount than a traditional PE fund. Also I think the argument that the market distrusts PE valuations is becoming less plausible given the recent strength in stock markets.

CLDN now on a 38% discount. If I apply a 10% discount for the public equities and a zero discount for the 9% cash position, the market is valuing the private holdings (the PE funds and the direct holdings) on a 60% discount. These all look pretty solid positions so looks to be significant value here.

riverman77
11/3/2024
16:50
There is apparently a good reason. Most of the assets are in PE and the market distrusts PE valuations at the moment. Well all the time but especially so at the moment. I do hold and I would top up lower. I had a £32 target but I’m not rushing in at the moment. There’s lots of evidence Caledonian know what they are doing in PE so I’m not concerned at all by the share price falling.
steve3sandal
11/3/2024
13:37
TBH no reason at all to not buy these shares, great company at a massive disco to nav for no good reason.
stevegrass777
11/3/2024
09:17
Getting v close to my my buy trade going through, can't see any good reason for the recent price decline.
chc15
29/2/2024
11:23
IMO Fair Value at a 35.3% discount; but hardly cheap. QS99 seems to think the "yield is great" - bizarre or what! Yield a mere 2.01% - even less when he posted in December.

In the sector the highest yielder is the microcap MVI - Yield of 10.3% & Discount of 50.3%.

More routine would be APAX on a 7.3% yield and 31.8% discount.

PEY another good yielder at 6.9%; but discount just 25%

Highest discount from a major player is HVPE on 42%...but they are a stand-out - still no dividend as managers prefer to maximise their fees rather than reward shareholders!

skyship
29/2/2024
10:20
What's the view out here, still looks good value, but can't get going..
chc15
20/12/2023
10:04
Peak interest rates IMO, small caps IMO will be back in vogue, more PE deals, all should IMO bode v. well for CLDN and have bought more...yield is great and discount to NAV looks unwarranted IMO....DYOR
qs99
16/11/2023
13:50
Good call I suppose, if this goes back near 32, I'll buy more.
chc15
15/11/2023
20:00
I thought £36.51 was somewhere to top slice about a third of my holding today. We’ve been here before. I’ll certainly buy them back for fiver less.
steve3sandal
15/11/2023
19:27
This seems to explain a lot

hxxps://quoteddata.com/2023/11/encouraging-signs-cost-presentation-problem/?amp=1

Banks have to hold more capital due to AIF classification of ITs.No wonder we see wide spreads and thin markets.

Also I suspect with trusts like CLDN being in the 250 this is exacerbated by the index being used as a basket proxy for UK domestic outlook. Whips around with poor sentiment/index shorting and then covering on any positive news. Not sure if CLDN would be fully replicated in a basket given the lower free float or if other more liquid trusts generally used as a proxy.

cousinit
15/11/2023
16:55
Something odd going on today with volume …results out next Tuesday
sageman1
15/11/2023
14:10
Small caps back in favour?
I'm hoping that an improvement in small caps together with a narrowing of the discount will give us a good ride here

mike the mechanic
15/11/2023
13:47
Something other than trading buys, surely? I'm a fan and have topped up, but just looks "odd"? DYOR
qs99
15/11/2023
13:07
Yes the chart looks a little crazy. Hard to believe a month ago that we were buying sub £32.

Wondering if one of the PE stakes has come up trumps or they are selling another operating Company at a knock out price.

flyer61
Chat Pages: 28  27  26  25  24  23  22  21  20  19  18  17  Older

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