African Aura Share Discussion Threads

[zangdook] 18/4/2011 17:13

Thanks. yes, I'd noticed that commission credit arrangement when looking through brokers' sites. I may give them a try.

[gardenboy] 17/4/2011 19:13

zangdook,

sorry late reply, no complaints re Share Centre for basic dealing and good helpful staff too.

Incidentally, a shareholding of 10,000 shares in the Share Centre costing circa £2,500 at present could give you a maximum annual yield of £1,200 in commission credits plus of course the company dividend payments.

[enami] 15/4/2011 11:35

Petrofac gave investors a breakdown of the base cost split when they demerged EnQuest a year ago (in monetary terms, not percentages).



I think it would be nice of AFF to do the same to clear up any uncertainty.

[nomunnofun] 15/4/2011 11:29

zangdook - now that you have mentioned it, I cannot figure out the prices either. I only know that they are odd as, in theory, I should have the same gain on each at the time of the split and I don't - much greater in AUE. Like you, all in my ISA so not bothered.

[zangdook] 15/4/2011 11:16

h-l, who have been on the ball on this split

in comparative terms, not absolute, IMV. I don't know how they calculated the division - it doesn't seem to match the prices. It doesn't matter much to me as mine are all ISAd but if anyone needs the correct figures for CGT, if your broker's figures are less advantageous to you than your own, or Enami's quoted above, it might be worth asking how they were calculated. I certainly wouldn't rely on HL or any other broker to get this (or anything) right.

[franciso1] 15/4/2011 11:10

Aureus documents

[fireplace22] 15/4/2011 10:50

Enami thanks for the info. Yes nomunnofun,I think it was your ref. I think that 'there are thereabouts' should suffice for the tax man. You can only do what you think is reasonable.

[nomunnofun] 15/4/2011 10:40

fireplace - that was me - just how h-l, who have been on the ball on this split, did it for me.

[enami] 15/4/2011 10:37

fireplace it's my own calculation based on my understanding of the rules.



To quote from HMRC Help Sheet IR285

"SHARE REORGANISATIONS INVOLVING DIFFERENT CLASSES OF SHARES.

The time at which you split the cost of the different classes of share depends on whether or not any of the shares are quoted on the Daily Official List of the Stock Exchange, or any other recognised Stock Exchange, within 3 months of the reorganisation taking effect:

• quoted shares - you value the different classes of share on the first day when values are quoted for the shares in the reorganisation."

[ I seem to recall reading somewhere that it is the mid price share price at the close you use for the valuation but I cannot find the reference. I guess you can use the price which gives you the advantage in CGT calculations but it will even out in the end as a higher calculated cost for one means a lower cost for the other.]

EDIT - section 272 of the Act of parliament

[fireplace22] 15/4/2011 09:11

Thanks Enami, I've been reading round on the othe threads AUE and AFF and seen figures of 64.2% and 35.8% quoted. Is this figure likely to be set in stone for CGT purposes or is it as you have calculated from the actual market prices on first day?

[greenroom78] 15/4/2011 09:09

Amalanchier

I think so. I have only noticed they do it since I have had L2 (Nov 2010) some of the trades I have made since then where I have witnessed it are CAD, BLVN, MML, AYM which I think some are SETSMM.

[enami] 15/4/2011 09:03

fireplace I figure it this way, at close of business on first day of trading

AFF CLOSE 181.5 61.2% x 4000 = 2449
AUE CLOSE 115 38.8% x 4000 = 1551

TOTAL 296.5

[fireplace22] 15/4/2011 08:22

Cant seem to get back to the old news on AAAM so cant grasp this split. Apparently I've got one share of AUE and AFF for each share in AAAM. But what is the Capital split eg for £4000 of AAAM is now worth what as AFF and AUE? TIA.

[zangdook] 15/4/2011 04:42

Greenroom78 - 14 Apr'11 - 20:16 - 9160 of 9161

... You place a limit order (as you can with all brokers)

Hargreaves Lansdown only do this if you ring them up and pay them ten quid extra, or so I'm told - they certainly don't offer it online.

Gardenboy, I'll have a look at the share centre - do you have any complaints? Do they have competent staff on the end of the phone/email or do you have to push past the usual idiots to get to someone who knows what they're doing?

[amalanchier3] 14/4/2011 23:05

GR

Does HSBC also place orders on the Order Book in the case of SETS / MM stocks, please?

A

[greenroom78] 14/4/2011 20:16

gardenboy,

They don't offer DMA as such, because with DMA you can pull the order and move it up and down to get it filled. You place a limit order (as you can with all brokers) the difference with HSBC seems to be they place it straight on the order book (so you see it straight away on L2). This is beneficial as if the price doesn't get there until late in the day you could be first served at that price.

For example, lets say L2 looks like

10k @50p v 10k @54.5p
15k @49.5p 10k @55.5p
15k @48p 20k @56p
etc

So spread is quite wide. Then lets say I place my limit buy order of say 5k @51p, that order gets place straight on the bid and the new spread is 51p v 54.5p and I am top of the list. Then say some takes my offer and sells them to me, i have my stock at 51p whereas the best 'buy' offer I might have got would've been nearer 54p. 3p x 5000 = £150 which is a big difference from the cheaper trading fee. Obviously the savings aren't always that good and you don't always get your order filled.

Same goes for selling as well. Lets say I decided to sell and put in a sell order @53p. I would then go to top of the queue in a spread of 50p v 53p and if someone buys my shares my order is filled and I have got another 3p x 5000 better than the only 'sell' price.

You only benefit from it on SETS stocks but it was enough to keep me with HSBC (who do have several other faults IMO).

[gardenboy] 14/4/2011 20:06

Greenroom78,

Interesting. Not looked at DMA yet, but I do find Share Centre live quote prices generally pretty good and stocks are usually available to trade online often when others complain they are not and when for instance no live quote is available on my Barclays Account - ie. picked up SOLO early yesterday morning for 0.51. I don't rely on just the Share Centre though and I don't suppose their platform is sophisticated enough for very active daytaders.

[greenroom78] 14/4/2011 19:42

Gardenboy - I looked at moving to share centre from HSBC for that reason cheaper trades. After a lengthy phone call I decided against it and the main reason being on SETS stocks HSBC put my order straight on the book (like DMA), whereas sharecentre said they don't do this. The monitor the price and present the order when the market reaches that point. The difference is that that on a SETS stock you can then buy at the bid price (provided the order is filled) saving you much more than the £5 cheaper trade. It can save you a great deal on some of the smaller SETS stocks where the spread is 5%.

[gardenboy] 14/4/2011 19:34

Share Centre holdings in AFF and AUE all sorted - really can't understand why people use other more expensive and inferior brokers - just £7.50 per trade (only £5.25 with shareholder credit) and had few problems with them except perhaps they don't always recognise some shares that should be ISA eligible.

[cupra kid] 14/4/2011 19:22

Kacker - most shares have dropped recently and prior to the split. 307p to 290p reflects a bit of this.

I checked my iDealing account first thing and still had AAAM listed. All sorted now it would seem and now have the respective amounts in AUE & AFF. If one can do it, why can't others?

[kacker1] 14/4/2011 16:16

Well i started with a single share of 307p and now have finished with 1 share at 113p and one share at 177p (290??). I suppose a 5% drop isn't too bad but i would have prefered a 5% rise, all in good time!!!

[greenroom78] 14/4/2011 12:22

EC - This is what HSBC told me (Sorry, C&Pd from AFF)

Ok, so for those of you affected by HSBC I have just got off the phone from a rather lengthy conversation with their corporate actions team.

I have been told that the problem is down to my account being a nominee account. Essentially who they get there stock from got their entitlement yesterday for AUE and HSBC received their share of it today. They plan to try and distribute it to the appropriate nominee accounts today or tomorrow at the latest. This doesn't explain the AFF issues, however he said (but wasn't certain) that they will receive AFF replacements for the previous AAAM stock held which is now showing delisted on their system. He has asked me to give them a little longer to resolve.

As for buying more (or selling if you are clinically insane ;) ) he said neither are recognised as ISAble on their system whcih they get from HMRC, this can be challenged (and I did, and have done before successfully with MML a year or so ago) and they contact HMRC about a specific ticker rather than the overall acceptance. As soon as they get clearance on this from HMRC they can allow it in their ISA.

Hope that all makes sense, I will update if I hear more.

[effortless cool] 14/4/2011 12:18

I thought I had got shares in AFF and AUE but, according to both Stocktrade and Selftrade, I still have shares in AAAM.

And they're worth nothing.

Never mind.

[vkx] 14/4/2011 11:00

Yes - Just checked my a/c with Barclays and have got the same. AAAM has vanished! It does seem rather odd considering the notice Barclays have had. Doesn't affect me as I've got no plans on selling these in the short-term anyway but not nice to see a huge loss on your a/c whilst these are in the ether somewhere

EDIT

PS. My a/c with Natwest is still showing AAAM

[paulo92] 14/4/2011 08:58

Barclays are really struggling.. AAAM has been wiped out and I am told that the new companies may not appear on my account untill Monday.. ridiculous!