Law Debenture Share Discussion Threads

[vacendak] 08/4/2024 12:44

To be fair, we were cruising towards £10 in early 2023, so there is still some catching up to do.

[lozzer69] 08/4/2024 12:14

Over 8 pounds atm which is good news. As a retiree I like safe investments but I don't think a near 10pc return over 5 years is boring. I will take that performance all day long.

[salvorhardin] 04/4/2024 07:33

I'm with vacendak on this. For retirees like me there's a lot to be said for a boring investment like Law Debenture whose share price doesn't move up and down like the proverbial tart's knickers.

We've made our money and we don't want to take the risk of having to go back to work (that's if we can find a job) having lost a small fortune punting on the next big thing.

When I worked in the City in the late 1990s I saw quite a few people throw away a big part of their futures by chasing dotcom stocks.

[vacendak] 03/4/2024 15:56

This is not meant to put your portfolio on fire.

Like FCIT, the appeal is in its liquidity. Also it tends to trade at a premium a lot more than the rest of the generic global semi-trackers ITs. There is hardly any risk with LWDB, low interest rates, high interest rates, rain or shine... it will not have the swings of Scottish Mortgage.

[ramellous] 03/4/2024 13:41

This has a total return of 60% over 5 yrs. A compound annual growth rate of 9.8% if dividends reinvested..

[thamestrader] 03/4/2024 13:22

Think I'm beginning to lose faith in this one. Since 1jan24: FTSE up 2.3%, my UK portfolio up 2.3%, LWDB down 2%. Yes there's a divi, but still a rubbish performance. There is a slight hint of an upward channel forming, so I might try and be patient.

[speedsgh] 27/2/2024 11:25

Q4 dividend: 9.125p
Payment date: 11/4/24
Ex-div: 7/3/24

"The Directors recommend a final dividend of 9.125 pence per share making a total for the year of 32.0 pence per share. Subject to the approval of shareholders, the final dividend will be paid on 11 April 2024 to holders on the register of the record date of 8 March 2024."

[speedsgh] 27/2/2024 11:24

Annual Financial Report -

Highlights:

· Share price total return marginally outperformed the FTSE Actuaries All-Share Index with a total return of 8.1% for 2023.

· NAV total return with debt and Independent Professional Services ("IPS") business at fair value for FY 2023 of 9.4% (8.9% with debt at par), outperforming index at 7.9%.

· Another good performance from IPS, with net revenue increasing by 11.8%, profit before tax up by 10.5% and valuation up 6.3% to £185 million (excluding net assets).

· The Company issued c.3 million new Ordinary Shares at a premium to NAV during 2023, to existing and new investors, with net proceeds of c.£24.2 million to support ongoing investment.

· Continued low ongoing charges of 0.49%, compared to the industry average of 1.20%.

Dividend Highlights

· 2023 full year dividend expected to increase by 4.9% to 32.0 pence per Ordinary Share (2022: 30.5 pence per Ordinary Share).

· Proposed 2023 dividend is fully covered by retained profits earned this year with no requirement to call upon historical reserves.

· Dividend yield of 4.1% (based on our closing share price of 778 pence on 23 February 2024), proposed Q4 dividend of 9.125 pence per Ordinary Share.

· 7.9% CAGR in dividends over last ten years, reflecting strong IPS cashflow and good portfolio performance.

[lozzer69] 25/1/2024 14:49

Tipped today in Questor column in Telegraph.

[cardinal3] 08/12/2023 20:28

vacendak
'I still need to top up on weapon manufacturers with the NATP ETF to inject some proper evil in my portfolio though'.
Love this. Cheered me up no end.

A sin stocks fund/IT would be good. Bright ideas welcome.

[thamestrader] 23/10/2023 10:00

This one's been badly underperforming its peers for the last couple of weeks.

[thamestrader] 02/10/2023 11:58

good workaround, thanks dlp6666

[dlp6666] 28/9/2023 10:32

@thamestrader

I raised this problem with HL recently and they said it was a technical issue with charts via Google Chrome which their IT people were trying to fix (no timescale given, though).

I've got round it by using Microsoft Edge as a browser when needed instead (where the HL charts display with comparatives etc. just as they used to on Chrome).

[ramellous] 28/9/2023 08:31

When using HL charts, I like to start by going to the funds section and bringing up the 5 yr chart of Fundsmith. This way you can overlay multiple equity charts on the same graph. Doing that with LWDB and the Lyxsor etf shows LWDB had a 60% total return and L100 had 20% since Sept 2018. Interestingly LWDB beat Fundsmith on the same timescale.

[vacendak] 28/9/2023 08:12

As noted earlier, the attraction, and most of the performance, comes from the Independent Professional Services (IPS) component. They even admit it fuels the dividend and allows them to do "a bit of growth" under the UK Income denomination.

I also like the fact that they are a bit lighter than the rest on ESG and do not feel too ashamed about holding oil companies. I still need to top up on weapon manufacturers with the NATP ETF to inject some proper evil in my portfolio though. :)

That being said, this is still indeed a steady-as-she-goes IT so it will not turn £100 in a million within one's lifetime.

[spectoacc] 28/9/2023 08:05

Yes that's a fair point. But still not sure LWDB is knocking socks (but do agree it's differentiated).

[steve c1] 28/9/2023 08:03

Surely your not comparing like for like. The tracker is an accumulation lwdb is not.

[thamestrader] 28/9/2023 07:42

These HL graphs have not been working for a couple of days now (for me at least). The 'at a glance' tab is fine, but under the 'charts & performance' tab, the graph doesn't load. This is annoying as you were able to put several comparisons on one chart.

[spectoacc] 28/9/2023 06:54

I did say LWDB was differentiated, but that's only thanks to the real business within. Otherwise, all these ITs are just beige megacap punters.

But if you edit the "FROM" to 2008 on here, and click update:



That's the tracker. Then do the same on here:



400p to 1,200p, or 250p to 800p. The socks are still on.

[steve c1] 27/9/2023 21:04

Lwdb knocks the socks off a ftse 100 tracker over the past 15 years.

[spectoacc] 27/9/2023 09:03

It does differentiate LWDB, but on a slight premium? Was at a discount of around 10% for years.

Also, the major holdings of LWDB, MRCH, CTY:

LWDB - Shell, BP, RR, HSBC, FLTR, GSK, RIO
MRCH - GSK, Shell, BATS, RIO, BP
CTY - Shell, BA., ULVR, BATS


A FTSE100 tracker would save you about 0.7% pa, compound.

Needless to say, you'd find similar holdings in EDIN & TMPL.

Can see an argument for LWDB (but not on a premium), and can see an argument for eg playing discounts on others. But otherwise they're just a beige soup of mega-cap FTSE100's, with the stockpicking at the edges, when they get it right, destroyed by the compound charges. 1% pa of fees/costs add up hugely over years.

[eigthwonder] 27/9/2023 08:53

i like LWDB for the fact it has operating income as well as dividend income. TMPL managers are a class act, perfect for current market conditions

[thamestrader] 27/9/2023 08:48

I have become a fan of ITs like this one over the last year or so, holding MRCH, CTY and LWDB.

Now that I have 12 months' performance to review. Annual returns sep22 to sep23, including dividends have been 22% for LWDB, and 12-13% for CTY and MRCH. But september 22 was a major dip, so probably not a fair reference point. However whichever way you slice it and dice it, LWDB is best of the three.

I have recently added a few more EDIN and TMPL into the mix, so let's see how they get on.

[davebowler] 14/8/2023 14:00

Quoted Data article -James Henderson and Laura Foll, managers, Law Debenture, 28 July 2023

The period began positively with the return of some investor confidence in equity markets. However, this proved short-lived when the Silicon Valley Bank collapsed. There was concern at the time that this collapse might lead to contagion globally. Thankfully, this did not prove to be the case as the banking system does not carry the same degree of leverage as in the past. The narrative in the market moved on, but risk aversion in the market remains. The global inflation level has not fallen as quickly as some had hoped. This is particularly the case with the UK, resulting in continued upward movement in its interest rates. The outcome has been that the gilt market has adjusted downwards, leaving yields at a level that is even higher than last autumn. This background of rising rates has undermined investor confidence in equities, particularly in UK-orientated small companies. AIM-listed companies in particular, have experienced share price weakness, falling, in some cases, to what appear to be extraordinarily low valuations.

[ramellous] 05/3/2023 22:21

Got a mention in the Mail