Wt Rene Etf Discussion Threads

[gettinrichslowly] 14/9/2010 15:39

Correction Tara. I previously posted that "I am not (nor ever have been) an investor or gambler in this outfit" I note your previous post that you were in on the 7th Sept. Your final comment is therefore more applicable to your own actions.
You are right in your assessment that they (Directors) run the show and not the shareholders but I bet David Slade(past investor/director/resigned) and Dominic Wainford, rue the day that they allowed themselves to be persuaded to put money into this outfit. When they got a new finance director on the board last year they kept the old one on. Why? Could it be to maintain the balance of power? The more I have seen of this outfit since right back when they first listed, the more unimpressed I have become.
One week on, would you still make the same "investment" decision? Even at todays price?

[tara7] 14/9/2010 14:16

Agreed, from both the above posts it is clear you guys think they are a shower of s----.

That may well be the case.

However buying now rather than 10, or more times the price in the past might just be smart.

Also point out they run the show not shareholders and it was you who put cash in at what is looking a far to high price.

[gettinrichslowly] 14/9/2010 13:46

So they carry on as they have to date, building nothing whilst drawing down money, paying themselves as an investor sponsored job retention scheme. I think patience on that front must be wearing thin by now. As regards negotiating lower prices on options they already have, I would imagine that the vendors have by now come to realise that the company are unable to fund land purchases and that they would be best allowing the options to lapse so that they can talk to other suitors (if they have not already been)with the benefit of the planning consents.

[tara7] 14/9/2010 12:18

Ok, first they seem to have a line of cash to drawdown as per RNS last year.

That cash will last for years.

Next they can lower the price on the land not yet bought, ie do a deal with the landowner.

[gettinrichslowly] 14/9/2010 12:10

Tara, 5years ago and 2 years ago is not now. The climate has changed. Read my previous post. They have built no retirement units since listing nearly 4 years ago. You constantly quote other companies performance as some sort of justification for investing in Wren. Give me three well researched reasons for investing in Wren that relate to the company itself from your list of 20. You must know something that I don't.

[tara7] 14/9/2010 11:40

The banks lernt that they bust themselves each time they pull the plug, so what is the point.

Also if they write Wrens land by 40% they have to do that to other builders on their books.

Far better to do a deal with Wren and work as a team.

[ravel morrison] 14/9/2010 11:33

Tara sorry for O/T here but whats your stand on SAM currently....Thanks....;-)

[tara7] 14/9/2010 11:27

You could be right that infact is what the share price is telling us.!!

However so did the Northacre share price at 2p less than 5 years ago , now £1.20p

Then the OPF around two years ago 7p to 70p.

You take no account of.

A deal with the banks to let them get a tad of their money back.

The fact that it is in the banks favour not to bust them. just adds another bad debt that holds back profits.

New investor could come along.

Plus another 20 reasons.

The fact is the company is priced to go bust , but as of today it has not.!!

[gettinrichslowly] 14/9/2010 11:20

You are right Tara, when you suggest that they should have been bust last year/month/week. The reason they have survived until now is that they have had the benefit of record low interest rates, which fundamentally were introduced to put a false floor under the economy and prevent a massive, and I mean massive, fall in asset values. Much as the lenders have been under pressure to be lenient with mortgage holders so as to avoid repossessions, the banks have also let outfits like Wren jog along so long as they have been able to meet their interest payments. (I think with Wren, their ability to do this is now in doubt). Given the unpopularity of the banks, they have been reluctant so far to pull the plug on many of the basket case companies, and I also believe that they have been under a certain amount of pressure to be lenient, just as mortgage lenders have been.
However, I think that we are now at a tipping point. The banks have become emboldened over recent months. Much of the criticism of them not lending is more to do with the lack of quality of the companies wanting to borrow than the banks reluctance to lend. RBS, I read, are planning to publish some sort of company lending index to deflect the criticism of them not lending. I would imagine that they have already made a provision (kitchen sinked) the money owed to them by Wren and the many companies like them on the basis that they can write back the money for those that survive. What I believe all this means is that we are on the verge of a Darwinian shake out. Taking a punt on small companies like Wren, where there is little current cashflow and where future cashflow is dependent on them having to borrow large amounts of money is just too risky in the current and likely continued lending environment. I think we will see a period over the next couple of years were many small companies like Wren will fail. In depth research has never been more important.

[tara7] 14/9/2010 07:01

You may be right , however if thats the case they should have been bust last year, last month, or last week.!!

[gettinrichslowly] 13/9/2010 22:58

Currently, Wren is not an investment, it is a pure gamble with excessively long odds. What odds do you place on it surviving? Surely, if you look at this in isolation, you could avoid the 72% loss that you are most likely going to incur. Your other results are impressive which makes me all the more amazed that you appear to be the most pro poster on the board for a company that has such little visibility. You would have better odds by going to the casino and betting red or black on the roulette table. Good luck. I just hope that Wren is not the start of a losing streak for you.

[tara7] 13/9/2010 19:32

But they are still trading, and as stated if you buy 10 of these type of Aim stocks some will come very good indeed.

This year i bought and posted AGL up 130%, YCO, up 250%, LEO up 80%, NTA up 700%, last year i had OPF up 530% PXS up 2,300%.

When i bought in all the above stocks no one and i mean no one would get near them.!!!

All had lost previous investors up to 98% of their investment.

If this goes bust it costs me just 72% of what i put in [the 28% being off set on cap gains tax.

[gettinrichslowly] 13/9/2010 19:13

Hole in one envirovision, hole in one.

[envirovision] 13/9/2010 14:55

Enough said!

[envirovision] 13/9/2010 14:55

?????????????

[envirovision] 13/9/2010 14:54

Imagine you were in a position that you had to find a care home for an elderly parent.

OK with me? Lets pretend, Hypothetically speaking now. Imagine some nut (Fred the shred type) down at the bank lent them the capital for just one of these imaginary schemes to begin.

Would you want your parent anywhere near them?

[tara7] 13/9/2010 11:28

Yes they could if they get 75%, but while others live in fear i do not.

CLS is valued at 800k not £100M, options to the staff, and spent 3 years of cleaning up the company.

Good luck in whatever you do.

[pugugly] 13/9/2010 11:25

Hi Tara: Just had a look - Director controlled so they can spend the cash on Director fees and expenses or take private for less than cash - I got caught that way on TTS [Total] imo one needs a good spread of share holders so they can be tempted to sell for a take over and no blocking directors holdings

[tara7] 13/9/2010 11:02

HI Pugugly, This stock is not without risk, high risk.

Might like to look at CLS where i have an idea the company might come up with the goods.

You will love the cash thats for sure.

[teapreacher] 13/9/2010 00:41

Good post, gettinrich.

T1ps had a price target of 26.3p(only one decimal point, tuttut) for Wren not so long ago.

[gettinrichslowly] 12/9/2010 23:00

This outfit, originally named Wren Homes, finished a development of 28 retirement flats at Warlingham in Summer 2006 and listed on aim as a retirement home specialist in Autumn 2006 (NEARLY 4 YEARS AGO). They have not built a single retirement flat since listing and therefore have COMPLETELY FAILED to deliver on their prospectus to IPO investors. They change their name to Wren Extra Care and classify themselves in the healthcare sector yet none of the directors are healthcare professionals or have any healthcare experience. Of the 2 founding principles, who each took out £1.4M on listing, West, the Chairman, resigned a little over 12 months after listing and since then it would appear he has disposed of most if not all of his 29% post ipo shareholding, not exactly a show of faith in the long term prospects of the company. Treadaway remains as CEO, taking out a large package each year that is not justifiable relative to the continued lack of turnover and profit.
"The board remains focussed on generating shareholder value." What utter tosh.
Given their history, I cannot believe that any right minded lending institution or investor will want to stump up the sort of money required to complete the purchase of optioned sites and construct the developments when the revenue stream is so distant. I doubt if there is any intrinsic value left in the company. Anybody with an eye on their sites will no doubt be waiting to do a deal with the banks after they go pop.
As you can deduce from the above, I am not an investor or gambler in this outfit. good luck if you are. I think you will need it.
As ever,dyor.

[philjeans] 10/9/2010 12:45

What makes you think they've been bought yet?

[5uchchi] 10/9/2010 09:27

I was expecting a RNS in relation to sold shares(bulk) in order to know who took up and percentage they are holding at present.Unfortunately very poor communications killing all PI's very badly.