Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Worthington Nicholls Group LSE:WNG London Ordinary Share GB00B105MM77 ORD 1P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  +0.00p +0.00% 10.25p 0.00p 0.00p - - - 0.00 05:00:10
Industry Sector Turnover (m) Profit (m) EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap (m)
24.8 2.0 0.0 - 0.00

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Worthington Nicholls (WNG) Discussions and Chat

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Date Time Title Posts
15/4/200819:48WORTHINGTON NICHOLLS, Growth On New Legislation.6,211.00
15/12/200707:40Worthington Nicholls WNG3.00
01/6/200712:32HH is an idiot, and has moderated me.28.00

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Worthington Nicholls (WNG) Top Chat Posts

DateSubject
11/3/2008
12:33
jockblue: My take on this is.... 1) There is a business worth saving. 2) The bits of the business worth saving ironically seem to be the acquired bits and the original WN Trading business appear to have been written off 3) Cash of £6.5m (about 7p per share) currently, but a loss making period, afew more exceptionals and any form of legal challenge will more than take care of that 4) Expectations set at break even by summer. 5) Beart puts money where mouth is 6) Kitchen-sink job completed, and in fact, actual write down not as bad as first feared. So, in conclusion, I suspect we'll end up with a business selling refitting services to the hotel and retail trade - a bit of shopfitting with aircon thrown in. It'll be profitable hopefully, and may well be worth holding. SB clearly sees some merit by spending £30k of his hard-earned on it, when he didn't need to. The obvious downside is anything left over from the Worthington days.....it wouldn't surprise me if a legal challenge was made to the company and its advisors. I'm sure the family's assets are well out of reach by now. A couple of comments on this thread... Assuming everyone is who they say they are, and its not one person doppelling every single post.... 1) Venlib may or may not have a previous connection with Wn, but regardless, the factual stuff he's posted here has turned out pretty much to be correct, and for that I'm grateful for his info. 2) I cannot see this share price going up anywhere fast - yes it'll fluctuate as its a magnet for day traders, but it'll need a solid set of post-apocolypse results to allow a rerating. 3) They've just about got enough cash to see out the restructuring, a big legal cloud hanging over them, and a share price worth next to nothing, together with a management team trying to rebuild it (note to self - Bionic Woman back on ITV2 tonight) - the last thing they would be doing is making acquisitions.....quite why anyone would suggest it is beyond me. 4) There's too much personal backbiting, particularly from the "20p-by-Friday" merchants or those who claim to have some form of personal knowledge of the industry.....lets let it lie. jb
06/3/2008
17:21
richmond9: Venlib. It makes everything easier surely. Following the transfer of the contracts/trading business and its staff into WN (Trading) Ltd it either has enough work to cover its overhead or it doesn't and it can have its cloth cut accordingly. This is the same for the other 5/6 limited company's owned by the Plc. WNG Plc doesn't need to trade/invoice customers, as it has the 8m in the bank and only 3 employees. The Board can raise money for the Plc by going back to the institutions that put them in and invest it based on what they are good at and have knowledge of. The city doesn't care what SB and the Board do as long as the Plc has a share price higher than it is now. If you look at XKO when SB took over in 1999 they had a Limited company that made clay pigeons, they sold this business to move into computer software and after 3 years sold all of the software company's and bought into the debt collection industry. The Plc remained the same throughout, it was only the Limited company's it owned that changed and the share price went from 25p to £1.96
03/2/2008
18:39
1tb: Never posted before as I have been happy to just read but some of the comments on here really do distort the actual reality of the situation and it is misleading other readers. Please re-read the article posted. KPMG were not and never have been the auditors of the company. They were brought in by management to do a review of financial matters and policies in 2007 and so the comments apply to that period of time. KPMG's concerns over accounting matters were based on their review they did and Tim Hunt was concerned in June 2007 about the £1m revenue added based on MW's word. KPMG are not the current auditors and probably were never considered as the new management team wanted a complete fresh start, understandably so. IMO the share price has factored in the announcements made to date and the current share holding by MW. Lets be honest, the latest RNS cannot really have been anymore damning and I have seen a number of these statements over the years given I am an accountant too. IMO (hypothetically speaking) - what will be interesting (and a positive impact to the share price)is if procedings are actually carried through and what will therefore happen to MW's holding. Lets face it, a company in this situation has already lost reputation on this so I presume it wouldn't worry about the impact of court procedings. In fact the market and all stakeholders would be glad to see new management sorting out the old issues and not brushing them under the carpet. All IMO of course.
12/12/2007
10:01
woopie: There may well be legal repercussions for the Worthington family, what particularly stinks is the fact that they disposed of a huge wedge of shares @ the share price peak 2 days before the RNS that started the share price on its steep decline & subsequent fudged RNS`s to disguise the facts.However this is a public company with untainted new management who have I feel done their best to present the unvarnished facts to existing shareholders and employees whome there are many.From an investment point of view this is a high risk high reward if all goes well play.What I dont see is the company with £10m cash going bust in the near future an alternative would be for a larger engineering group to take it over in which case the investors would be ok.Venlib you may well have insider knowlede who knows but the tantalising way you present it does you no favours.bwtfdik
09/12/2007
17:51
hlum: If we look at the rns, it is more positive than we had expected. The kitchen sink was expected and talked about here several times prior to the suspension. The share price suffered as a result of the incompetent management who have now gone. From £2 to 20p, it's a drastic fall, and with such problems as WNG's had the share price must have been punished severely, as is the norm. In other words one could easily state that with the uncertainty out of the way, the share price will now reflect its true value UPWARDS, which is, again, the norm. Those who are talking the share price down come Monday either have no real understanding of the stock market in this context, or are short and were caught unprepared by the announcement at the start of the weekend. I bet they will be the first ones to close their short on Monday. Given that we all expected the kitchen sink, the only thing of concern was what forward looking statement we would get. No one in their right mind would deny the excellent content therein: ............PROSPECTS AND FINANCIAL STATUS The New Board intends to ADJUST RAPIDLY THE FIXED COST base where appropriate, GENERATING IMMEDIATE MONTHLY CASH SAVINGS. The changes to financial process and management will take a period of time BUT THESE ARE CHALLENGES WITH WHICH THE NEW BOARD IS FAMILIAR. The group remains ROBUSTLY FINANCED WITH SUBSTANTIAL CASH BALANCES AND THE NEW BOARD BELIEVES THAT THE GROUP IS ONE OF THE LARGER AND MORE EXPERIENCED COMPETITORS IN ITS MARKETS, WITH CONSIDERABLE ENGINEERING AND TECHNICAL SKILLS. THE BOARD DOES NOT EXPECT SERVICE LEVELS OR ENGINEERING SKILLS TO BE ADVERSELY AFFECTED as result of recent changes and the adjustment to the cost base. The Group will, therefore, continue to manage EXISTING BUSINESS FOR CUSTOMERS AND CONTINUES TO SEEK TO WIN NEW BUSINESS INCLUDING BIDDING FOR AT LEAST TWO LARGE NEW CONTRACTS. Following this statement the New Board has requested that trading in its ordinary shares on AIM be restored. It is anticipated that trading in the Company's shares will be resumed at 7:00 a.m. on 10 December 2007.
02/11/2007
14:27
dreamsurfer141: hlum. I agree. WNG have made five acquisitions so far and these acquisitions can take time and effort to implement before you start to maximise profit from them (especially as one of them made a loss of £4000 is their previous financial year): -------------------- RNS Number:3939O Worthington Nicholls Group plc 21 December 2006 The Lumenglow acquisition is also important strategically, bolstering the Company's presence in London and the South East. The Group also sees opportunities to market maintenance contracts to Lumenglow's customer base, and to cross sell its services to existing Worthington Nicholls' clients. Founded in 1984 and based in East Dulwich, Lumenglow's customers include Debenhams, Royal Doulton, Farebrother and the London Borough of Kingston-upon-Thames. In the year ended 31 July 2006, Lumenglow reported a small pre-tax loss of #4,000 on turnover of approximately #830,000. -------------------- If the share price had slowly drifted down from 50p over the last year to between 15-25p, and if WNG then reported that they made a very slight profit or broke even, then heads wouldn't be rolling and this would be an excellent stock to start buying into, especially with a dividend. But the stock was massively over hyped to an overbought stage. WNG also didn't help with this, reporting a "Major Contract" quite often on RNS up until their "multi million" pound "First customer contract to comply with new EU legislation" stating that "In the context of recent Company contract announcements, this is one of the most significant": -------------------- RNS Number:3980Y Worthington Nicholls Group plc 15 June 2007 Worthington Nicholls Group plc (AIM: WNG) ("Worthington Nicholls"), one of the UK's largest installers of air conditioning, heating, ventilation and chilled water systems, has signed a multi million pound contract for nine years through to June 2016 with IHG Managed Services, part of the Intercontinental Hotels Group ("IHG"). In the context of recent Company contract announcements, this is one of the most significant. -------------------- I believe this has been a contributing factor to the great negativity and uncertainty surrounding WNG at the moment as they promised much but haven't delivered(yet?). However, with a new board, hopefully Good, Beart and Mann, which is who I will be voting for, I hope this to be an excellent recovery stock. One other opinion which is also pure speculation is regarding MW. Do you think he may have been too busy entertaining for new business instead of running the company? Good at securing new business but not very good at the whole CEO thing?
22/10/2007
19:00
dreamsurfer141: This share is highly speculative and therefore volatile at the moment, as we are awaiting news to find out if: - They made a loss or broke even this year - They have replaced their CEO - They have a strong pipeline of business for next year - There is a possible bid for company The week before last the share price shot up from 16p to 25p on speculation of any of the above. We beleived that news was leaked beforehand (see post from 3556) however when the announcement came it wasn't as rosy as the hike in share price: RNS Number:6883F Worthington Nicholls Group plc 15 October 2007 Update Regarding Reviews, Board Composition and Trading "Based on the work to date, the board of directors of the Company ("the Board") presently estimates that write offs totalling #6.5 million to the Group net assets at 31 March 2007 are necessary. The impact of these adjustments on current and prior years is currently being reviewed. In addition, a substantial write off to the goodwill held on the balance sheet is anticipated." But it wasn't all bad: "In the best interests of the Group and to allow the Board freely to identify and appoint a replacement, Mark Worthington has stepped down as Chief Executive and from the Board with immediate effect. Mr Worthington will remain with the Group, focused on new business development and client relationships." If you beleive that there was a leak, its entirely possible that the same source has leaked the news once again, explaining the amount of buys today given that there is much negativity surrounding this share at the moment and there has been some heavy selling. ---- If they can stop the rot then over the next 12-24 months this should be a good recovery play, especially if a bid occurs at a premium of the current share price, otherwise, especially in the short term its extremely risky. For the above reasons I would say that this share is a hold until all factors are known.
11/10/2007
18:10
venlib: Anything is possible but I can't see MW going given the fight he's put up so far, although of course he may not have a say in it. Unless there's a major change, instead of another minor shuffle, then I can't see that that would affect the share price much until people see the improvement working. Another thing is they would be stupid to risk leaking any info which might affect the share price with the city already on their back (Although they are possibly incompetent enough to not take sufficient precautions). If there is an announcement tomorrow, and the poster seemed confident, then someone is going to be screaming FSA again and quite rightly. The whole thing stinks from start to finish. I still lean towards it being a takeover preamble, protection, or a pumper in that order. Anyone of those is good for the share price in the short term at least - providing you keep a very close eye on it. I'd watch out for Monday one way or the other
10/10/2007
11:56
venlib: You rang EOC74? There's a few things I know which are that they have been slack on the work front for a while now and whereas the industry has been reporting similar levels of trade to last year until recently, many are now saying they are also slack. November is often not a bad month for the trade picking up but Dec-Feb are historically the slackest months of the year so all in all it's unlikely the work front is going to start helping wng. Lack of productivity will eat the cash and they say margins have been down so I can see that pile going fast. The Bank balance is irrelevant without debtors & creditors figures but don't forget that as they come back into busy season next year they've got a pile to shell out for the deferred aq's payments or they lose them. I've heard they will be reporting a loss but that isn't entirely unexpected & the current price already reflects that. The revenue figure can't be trusted – they said on IPO (MEN I think) they had 10.2m booked but that turned into 8.1 or thereabouts so they managed to mis-report booked revenue figures by 20%. One of the difficulties with wng is you can't trust what they say as you all know now What I would consider beyond all that though is the picture on their side of the fence; The company has no chance of going back to the market for any more funds and if the business bucked up the shares will probably languish for a long time because of the lack of confidence. So what's the point in staying in the market & if they do start turning a profit then why pay it out in divvy's when there's an array of back pockets in the board room? Then there's MW who I'm told refuses to be shoved. He's not going to get a job anywhere easily and would not want to end up as someone's employee. It's the power he likes most which is why he won't go so my guess is he would prefer not to be in the market right now so that shareholders can't control his destiny. Stoddart? He's not going to be happy about the calls for his head either. Same goes for the rest of this board which keep in mind is made up of very wealthy men who already own shares in wng. Then there's this Mitie guy. That's a good move for the business but as a founder of Mitie think about his ethos which is to buy a large chunk of a co and help it grow with his experience which is where he gets his return. So why's he bothering with wng if not for that but there's been no mention of him buying up a large chunk of wng shares to my knowledge. I doubt he's waiting until their shares rocket before he buys a controlling interest – the other way would have my bet. Call me cynical but saying nothing is hurting the share price They've got a cast iron excuse with the new FD etc to make the forthcoming news as bad as possible. Perhaps just enough to really drive the share price down. Then what would you do? With the city on your back big time and in MW & AS's case facing being out of a job? Why not buy it up nice and cheap, keep your jobs make it a success and flog it to a big m & e in a few years or mitie might want to keep it. I'd bet that if they weren't in a close period then its cheap enough for an MBO now but it might serve their purpose until after the news anyway. I think the city can see this coming which is why they want the entire board replaced to stop it There is another alternative, let it crash all the way and pick it up from the administrator for a snip but my bet would be on an MBO to keep the credibility of the business up and to get it bought before the sharks turn up for lunch in an admin situation
18/8/2007
12:40
davius: It is undoubtedly human nature that when a share falls so much, existing shareholders start howling at the company performance and the incompetance of the management. It is very difficult to take a pragmatic view when your investment has crashed, hence a barage of negativity and criticism is flung at bulletin boards such as these. But as a recent poster pointed out, all that is really important is what will happen to the share price. Suggestions of whether the company can survive appear to be ridiculously wide of the mark. At the interim results posted in June, discounting intangibles they had a net asset value of over £9.5m. Then in May they raised a further £20m via a placing to pay off debts and fund aquisitions, leaving them with a current cash position of £12m. The admin expenses of the company are not particularly high, although have increased recently due to planned expansion. Most of the costs are related to sales, so if sales are lower then generally related costs will be too. From the figures in the profit warning some costs have increased, and delays to contracts have caused the reduction in profit to a forecast breakeven for the year to September. However, since debts have been paid of following the placing, it seems highly unlikely that the asset value is worse than the £9.5m in March, indeed it could be much higher than this. Add to that the £12m in cash and the NAV could be anywhere from £21.5m to perhaps £25m. Either figure is well ahead of the £17.18m market capitalisation at the close on Friday. Looking back at the interim report, it looks like much emphasis has been put on the so called 'F' gas legislation from the EU. This means phasing out R22 refrigerant gasses with and replacing with more enviromnentally friendly versions. In June WNG signed their first 'F' related contract (with a duration of 9 years) with part of the Intercontinental Hotels Group, in what they see as a £7bn market in the UK alone. Winning even a small fraction of this business would result in strong sales growth for the company over the longer term. So the hard part is how to estimate a value for the company. The latest two broker targets now suggest a valuation of 38p and 40p for the group, around £34m. A 'guestimate' of the current net asset value of £23m has to be a good starting point. Despite the problems there has to be some value attibuted to goodwill too, there are no doubt competitors that would love to get their hands on some of WNGs contracts. The interims listed intangibles as £29m, way too high now I would have thought, a sensible figure might be perhaps somewhere around £5m. That gives us a valuation of £28m, which would mean a share price of around 32p. It might be prudent to trim that slightly, but I would suggest that 30p is an entirely realistic expectation. 30p would represent a 50% increase over the current share price, but whether this is achievable in the short term depends more on sentiment than true value. Were the share price to remain substantially under NAV per share then the possibility of a take out offer from a rival would seem quite likely. I'm sure that there will be posters agreeing and disagreeing with my interpretation. But those that will follow with comments like 'this company is doomed' will be demonstrating their ignorance and complete lack of research for all to see. Whether you chose to go long, short or stay out of this share, good luck to you. Personally, I'll be sticking with my buy from yesterday, at 18.5p.
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