Woodford Patient Capital Share Discussion Threads

[netnut] 13/1/2017 08:55

I can see some US pharmas doing their research oversea's to avoid what it might perceive hostile future legislation.

[fjgooner] 12/1/2017 23:48

Questor buy tip, eh? Is this a clear sell signal?

Presumably Questor doesn't believe that Trump wants Pharmas to play more fairly. Good luck with that.

Maybe WPCT would be best staying clear of speculative Pharmas for the next 4 years if it ever wants to hit the heady heights of break-even-from-IPO.

[woodpecker25] 12/1/2017 11:04

WPCT tipped by Questor (Daily Telegraph) today, citing attractiveness of current 5% discount to NAV.

[toffeeman] 11/1/2017 19:19

LK is a fantastic poster as long as you have him/her filtered ):

[kpo115] 10/1/2017 21:10

Liquid Faeces, are your postings so incoherent because you mitched from school a lot? Or is it because you are fundamentally thick?

[p1nkfish] 10/1/2017 15:52

WPCT are diverse enough to help in the case of general market drawdowns and the unlisted elements can help in that regard.

I don't see 10% p.a., likely to be much lumpier and the real return when the ipo market is ready and/or various global problems are washed away or defaulted upon.

Between now and then it's worth accumulating imho.

It is less volatile than IPO too.

[jonwig] 10/1/2017 13:38

TAM - No, I have him filtered, because I don't want to read his posts, nor do I want to read the posts of people who comment on them.

My last remark on the matter.

[jonwig] 10/1/2017 13:12

kpo - "Ignore ..." Yes: why don't you?

If you filter, then ignore, completely ignore, he will be invisible. What your post (and others like it) does is encourage him.

Of course, one can also filter people who post about his posts ...

[kpo115] 10/1/2017 13:04

Ignore Liquid Underpants's gibberish. He is a rancid little recluse who sits all day in the middle of a field digitally pleasuring himself. (He never manages the end bit, though, LOL LOL).

He fancies himself as a bit of an investment guru and gives advice on all kinds of shares none of which he knows anything about. For instance he's been slagging off Woodford's Patient Capital Trust for aeons, quite impotently. Indeed in July he was shorting it, or so he claimed. He was trying to get other holders to do the same. So what happened? They shot up about 15%, that's all!

He is also pretty thick about other financial matters. He avoids making a profit at all costs in case he has to pay Capital Gains Tax! Can you believe it? As if!!!

He also excuses himself for always making losses by saying that they can be very useful to put against his tax liabilities. The dope hasn't twigged that you've got to make said gains before the losses can be used.

He has also been making psychopathic fantasy posts pretending to smash those that disagree with him with a cricket bat about the head! Weird ain't a strong enough word.....

[liquidkid] 10/1/2017 10:26

The slight uptick in the NAV is because of the 40% upswing in you know what.




- He ain't doing this for free is he - performance or not.
- The average FTSE 100 chief executive received £5.5 million in 2015

[...]



Testing for fool’s gold in IP

'Touchstone is the jester in Shakespeare'
evergreen funds: IVO, ALM, IPO, MERC, MLC - ALL OF WHICH are in the WPCT
'may be the only way that ordinary investors can gain access'
'These are private equity punts'
'Fund valuations are based how much money can attract from investors'
'values remain tied to binary events'
'these funds rarely pay dividends or distribute proceeds'
'money is tied up for decades'

[a0148009] 10/1/2017 09:59

riskvreward - You are quite right, by way of example I was just making a statement
that 10% pa compounded doubles over 7 years which I personally do not regard as a satisfactory target, especially considering in the past Woodford has performed way above this. He set the bar at 10% before fees and as you rightly say is way under water.
AO

[jonwig] 10/1/2017 07:28

topvest - I think that's a strategy used by some IT investors: buy the trusts with the worst 2016 in Jan 2017 (etc.).

Maybe a better strategy: I started my investing life with pound-cost averaging, where we put something like £50 a month into four ITs which had low cost plans. I don't know if this sort of thing still exists, but it was very profitable over a period of about 15 years.

If I invest in WPCT, that might be my approach (maybe £1,000 each quarter), since I just can't time the right entry point with this kind of trust.

[topvest] 09/1/2017 20:51

Yes and in a bad year it could halve...time to buy is on a bad year which we haven't had yet.

[mad foetus] 09/1/2017 19:34

Let's be honest, in a good year the share price could easily double. Just be patient, FFS.

[riskvsreward] 09/1/2017 19:27

Well AO you are talking about doubling your money from year one in 7 years to make it compound of 10%. The situation here is it is already 10% down with 2 years almost gone, so to make it double in 7 years means that it needs to go up 110% in the next five years, which is not impossible but much harder than making 100% in 7 years.

What is more if it underperforms in years 3, 4 , 5 then it will become an almost impossible task, barring miracle.

It is extremely disappointing performance considering 1) the general market index, be it ftse100 or ftse all shares has gone up significantly over the same period and 2) WPCT performance has been flattered by about 5% benefit of £ losing almost 20% as wpct has roughly 25% US companies in its portofolio which are valued in $.

[p1nkfish] 09/1/2017 16:13

Interestig volume and price held and perked up.
We shall have to wait and see.

[a0148009] 09/1/2017 11:07

FWIW 10% pa growth doubles in 7 years. I think Woodford set the bar at this level before charges as this would be expected minimum return on state of the art Pharma and Hi Tec companies, however they take time to build up steam and as previously mentioned some may go bust and he will need powerful performers to achieve his target, my guess is he will have some time to wait before he gets his fees unless he can make some stunning exits and some luck, having said this he is the go to man for entrepreneurs.
AO

[p1nkfish] 07/1/2017 19:27

Having some unlisted portfolio holdings will help NAV hold up if a bust happens rather than just a drawn out deleveraging. I have been adding as a percentage of portfolio and will try to maintain that percentage on price weakness.

GLA.

[p1nkfish] 07/1/2017 19:19

Look at volatility vs alternatives and it is less in wpct. Just treading water until some of the current global and uk imbalances are cleared will be an achievement.

My take is the UK needs what wpct (& ipo) are looking to offer.
UK Gov should be on side.

Timing is always the unknown so waiting for a trend to show might be sensible, trend following the like of wpct and ipo. However, if you want to build a reasonable stake it's the usual pound cost averaging over time and current price and discount to NAV doesn't look too unattractive.

I see ipo and wpct being a multiple of today in 5-10. Another ipo cycle will arrive and substantial value arrive. First the world will have to work off excesses or have a bust.

[riskvsreward] 07/1/2017 17:04

The normal rule of IT is the poorer the performance the wider the discount. So unless a sharp turn-around appears from nowhere the discount will get wider for wpct, especially it offers no income to compensate.

It is true that Woodford won't make a fee unless the trust makes a return greater than 10% pa compounded. However the longer it under performs the harder it can ever meet that traget and as such he may either gamble even bigger or completely give up which can make it even worse.

[jonwig] 07/1/2017 14:43

topvest - you could be right. I think the NAV will be less volatile than the market due to valuation rules. But the share price could well fall if the market does. Hence the discount widens.

Lack of a dividend makes it less attractive, and I suppose there's still the background aim to issue more shares.

[mad foetus] 07/1/2017 14:43

Bear in mind that unless it makes 10% pa compounded woody gets no management fee.