Work Service Share Discussion Threads

[smithie6] 03/10/2014 20:14

1997
(last news item on advfn under wse ticker)

"The new shares will be placed with two South African pension funds. Mine
Employees Pension Fund will subscribe for 4,322,620 shares and Mine Officials
Pension Fund will subscribe for 6,483,930 shares, at a placing price of 14p per
share. The Company has entered into a Subscription Agreement with the two
pension funds, which is conditional on the passing of the resolutions referred
to below and the shares being admitted to trading on AIM.

The Placing involves issuing 10,806,550 new shares in the Company which
represents a 33.3 per cent increase in the Company's issued share capital."

a 1 for 4 consolidation happened around 2005-2009.
so
it was around 2.7M shares....at 64p


The current share price to sell in 2014 is 63p

LOWER than the subscription price in 1996-7 !!!

ie. the dirs. are NOT making money....NOT increasing the share price !!
after almost 20 years !

----

Topvest
you may not agree....but do you see my point ...and agree it is a valid point ?

Any support from anyone to put forward an agreed resolution at the AGM ?

(change....to avoid another 20 yrs the same as the last 20
keep current strategic policy with existing investments....but no new strategic investments....unless agreed by shareholders for any specific case with no vote from the Marshalls
and return of cash from sales)

[smithie6] 03/10/2014 19:59

Topvest
in case of interest
my own investment perf. goes off the roof if put on the Western chart !

and I am sure that your inv. perf. is much better than Westerns as well.

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Can you name any investing companies that operate the strategic investment method and have a good record ?

I think I can name various that have vanished or performed poorly.
Spark (almost finished selling assets and returning cash to investors) .
Arlington (finished selling assets and returning cash to investors)

Then all the dot com ones, VoyagerIT. AsiaInvest (or whatever), Luke Johnsons one, .......Western !! LFI !

Can you name some that have done well and show that the concept can work if the managers are skilled ?

(I can get a higher annual return than these guys (and get the dividends from the investments)...choosing my own investments....and without them getting rich from dirs. fees at investee companies from my money....paid to off-shore un named co. for David Marshall...so tax free I assume...)

[smithie6] 03/10/2014 19:41

Topvest

here is the long term chart for Western



(if doesnt load....enter ticker wse in basic chart page....for "all" time)

imo this shows that they do not know what they are doing !

since the share price is the same as it was in the previous decade and at the end of the 90s
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For comparison the charts for Blackrock smaller cos and Aretemis smllr cos and others....

shows a strong up trend over the last 20 years..X 3- X4 !!..while Western is SIDEWAYS !!


(being in Western and not in Blackrock or Artemis has cost me a lot of possible money...while the Marshalls have got richer
(I own more shares than you I think...and for longer I assume)

---
if people wanted to invest in non-listed cos. or start ups.....then VCTs are probably the best....

but few of them are any good imo
and that is with VCT mngrs using more staff and many more combined years of experience than Western has

Western/LFI has only got experience of investing in a handful of strategic cos. over the last 10 years....whereas VCT funds have invested in tens of companies....so they have imo much more experience
----

I recall that Western had to raise money via the warrant units because it had been unable to grow....
6M new shares


whereas a successful listed co. would not need to do that

and could not issue shares directly since the law prevents new shares below the nominal share value...
THAT is proof of poor performance after having been around for decades !!
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If the Company Act 2006 rules against continuing after a perf. review with any business plan to reward the Marshalls with a plan they know produces poor return to shareholders.....then the law is the law.

-----

but each person to their own choice...

to organise a resolution into the AGM agenda I think that 5% of votes is needed.....to put forward a resolution....

[smithie6] 03/10/2014 19:24

"Its new business model will be to take sizeable minority stakes in relatively
small companies at a pre-IPO or IPO stage, and have directors in common through
which they can provide advice and support for these growing companies."

I understand that the IPO mkt is now largely dead....compared to 6 months ago...

have the dirs. noticed ?....perhaps not...
(the best time for IPOs was , of course, up to 6th April 2014)

and the AIM index is down in 2014...

[topvest] 01/10/2014 21:09

You are spending too much time on this. It's a Marshall company. Accept that or move on. I'm reasonably happy with how things are going.

[smithie6] 01/10/2014 20:14

if the Western and LFI investment strategies are know to be bad/poor

eg. look at the share price charts for 10-20 years

then perhaps it is ILLEGAL for the bod to do a review of perf. and to choose to continue with the same strategy....especially if it is being done to provide financial return to certain people (Marshalls ?) via directors fees from investee companies......while KNOWINGLY producing a poor return to shareholders.

Anyone with any legal knowledge reading ?

(the Company Act 2006 is law....and cant be broken or ignored)

[smithie6] 01/10/2014 20:11

"New" Western would report its NAV

at end of June it looks like NBI price was 520p...
and 580p now

I make that an increase in NAV to now of 6p
if so..and if ignore other investments...
then NAV increases from 102p to


108p now.

selling price of 63p is 58% of that NAV value

(SWL is showing signs it might move up.....& up around 10p since end of June perhaps
Creston was doing well since end of June....but down today...)

(with CRE and SWL increases NAV should be closer to 110p-112p but I dont want to calculate.....sp might fall tomorrow...since US mkts taking a pasting today...down maybe 2%)

[smithie6] 01/10/2014 19:26

Proposed Resolution for the AGM

need I think 5% of the votes to get this on to the agenda.
Any votes towards that 5% ?

" To reject the Marshalls proposed new strategy of re-invest much/all of the funds of the General Portfolio (approx. 3M pnds) in to NEW unlisted strategic investments in the same way as Western and LFI have done in the past with Doctors Direct, Hartim and putting directors on to the boards of investee companies. This strategy has been shown over the last 10-15 years to produce random results with a high % of investee companies going in to admininstration. The return to shareholders has been poor with no return over 10-15 years. While the total income received by directors (such as Marshall family members ) having been large.
It is noted that the Company Act requires the directors to review the past performance of the company and its strategy and to try to modify the strategy in order to obtain general benefits for all shareholders. Hence it would be illegal for the directors to intentionally choose a certain strategy when a review showed that it was a poor choice compared with other strategies, especially if that poor strategy was chosen in order to provide financial gains to specific persons, such as the Marshalls, while intentionally producing poor return to the general shareholders.


Yes, to reject the new strategy.
No, to accept the new strategy."

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(so the proposed strategy may be breaking the law for Western bod to choose it...)

[smithie6] 01/10/2014 18:14

uh ?

can you spell out what you mean ?

wind up the co. ?

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btw
LFI shareholders look to be getting a terrible deal at present....
looks like admin. cost of 450k (which after remove inv. services income, such as producing FIF accounts...of around 200k..from total costs of 650k)

450k admin. cost.....to monitor 1 strategic investment (FIF) and 1 gen. portfolio...their stake in Western, I assume is easy for them to monitor !

450k....that is terrible imo....

[russman] 01/10/2014 17:44

My Agenda has always been to extract the value from WSE (with or without the Marshalls).

[smithie6] 01/10/2014 17:42

"Our new business model will be to take sizeable minority stakes in relatively
small companies at a pre-IPO or IPO stage, and have directors in common through
which we can provide advice and support for these growing companies."

I have posted many times about this subject before....

Western and LFI have proven over the last 20 years that they are UNABLE to produce - reliable or repeatable performance
or
- good performance

and that the perf. achieved is RANDOM
with a high % of investee companies going in to administration !!!!!

There is I think no company that follows this strategy and has done well over the last 20 years.
Numerous cos. have tried and failed.
Numerous directors think they have the golden touch.....but over time I think that virtually all of them have proven that they DO NOT, hence inferring that the dirs. were over optimistic and egotistical in their own self belief (or knew they were lying all along and were just there to fill their pockets with high pay levels and bonuses)

The perf. achieved by inv. funds following a strategy of investing in cos. without having dirs. on the co. boards have ALL done much better

Blackrock small UK cos
Artemis
Aberforth
etc
etc

There is a big risk that the Western strategy is DESIGNED to provide personal reward for the Marshalls rather than reward for Western shareholders, as it has over the last 20 years. If so, then shareholders MUST reject it.

I propose that us shareholders REJECT the proposed new strategy
and that it can only be used where specific investments are proposed to shareholders to vote on before agreed.
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imo David C Marshall and Lloyd Marshall have proven that they do not know what they are doing. See 20 yr charts for Western and LFI. And recall that the following costs went into administration or were sold to reduce their debts
- MWB
- Doctors Direct
- Sanctuary group

while the following almost went into administration due to excessive debt levels
(David Marshall seems to have a love of taking on massive amounts of debt !)
- Finsbury food
- Creston


Western shareholders have been saved by just ONE investment. ONE !!
Northbridge.
Otherwise Western NAV and share price would be on the floor, despite having numerous cash raisings.

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Note that Western had to use tricks in order to raise money via the warrant units in 2007.
The share price was below the nominal value of 40p...so the co. was prohibited by law by issuing new shares at less than 40p...and at above 40p I think that there would be no takers since the mkt price was cheaper.

A LFI/Western adviser charged 200k pnds for Western to raise 600k nett from the warrant units. 200k ! For doing almost nothing. Disgraceful.
Is it only the insiders that make money out of Western/LFI ?

----

Any opinions ?
Anyone willing to vote in support of rejecting the accounts and the proposed investment in new non-listed cos ?

[smithie6] 01/10/2014 17:28

and btw
I think that shareholders needs to be aware of the risks of the bod taking too much risk in order to try to achieve the perf. targets for the share bonus scheme

around 600k western shares I think I recall

his part of that is a big carrot imo for the MD of City Group
I would assume that his part is 1-2 yrs salary

it could be that the Hartim adventure was because of that.....and that without the big carrot of the scheme... that the Western/City grp dirs. at Hartim would have otherwise voted against the adventure and tried to stop it taking place...

cost to "us" was half of 3M pnds lost...1.5M pnds...almost 10p per Western share

[smithie6] 01/10/2014 16:17

Can I interest anyone in voting NO to all AGM resolutions ?

I will be

for example.....what the co. is doing or what the plans are......we have been told nothing

not even the NAV is given in the accounts !!

[smithie6] 01/10/2014 16:08

Russman
"I have already stated my Agenda".

Can you remind us what is your agenda ?

[smithie6] 01/10/2014 16:07

"If you WSEL shareholders were to back the Marshall ventures directly you would be showered with tax incentives".

fair point

and the dividends

....by investing in shares via Western we have been partly paying Mr David Marshalls directors fees at Finsbury, Creston, MWB etc.

David Marshall pocketted around 400k over 10 yrs.t from Creston !!..while the Western investment in Creston has produced a loss compared to inflation

and benefits to at least one son.....
directors fees at City group....which runs Western ...
a dir. for at least 10 years I think...over 900k pnds imo...
and one assumes expenses as well

these are some of the reasons why I think Western shareholders need to be organise and flex their combined muscle to force improvements....

(the Marshalls are getting their benefits from LFI and Western....but what about the co. owners ??...us !!)

and also to decide the future strategy of the co.

(I have repeatedly posted that I think that the Artemis or Blackrock strategy produces better results.......invest in listed cos. and sell and buy as preferred....and dont have anyone on the board (since limits selling/buying)

the charts for last 20 years show that I am right
all UK small cap. invest. cos. blow Western perf. into the weeds

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btw I converted some warrants at 64p.....was it in 2006/7
a fair number
if I sold now I would get 63p.....
so I am not too impressed with the perf. achieved by the Marshalls !

[smithie6] 01/10/2014 15:54

"we" have 56% of the company

the Marshalls only have 44%

changes can be voted through if needed.....or pressure applied to achieve what the co. owners want, without neccesarily needing a vote

or of course the popular UK tradition of apathy can be followed ! (as you might guess Im not a supporter of that !)

[smithie6] 01/10/2014 15:51

Topvest
btw
I reckon that the bank debt (3-5M) for the recent acquisn. can be paid off by end of Dec if NBI holds back on new expenditure....which it could do if it wanted since it has acquired new kit in the acquisition (has to keep increasing fleet size to produce growth to justify the growth P/E rating)

and then say 7.5M-8.5 cash generation in H1 next year and 2.5M I think to pay to NZ sellers.....leaving a good few M for new acquisitions or more hire equipt.

the cash generation is impressive.....

as long as NBI can keep its margins up and keep its occupancy rates for kit....and find profitable ways to re-invest its cash generated....then the NBI EPS growth could/should keep going

WHile for shares...there are always risks.

[coolen] 01/10/2014 00:07

If you WSEL shareholders were to back the Marshall ventures directly you would be showered with tax incentives.

Backing them via WSEL, you lose them all.

[russman] 30/9/2014 22:26

Frankly, Mr Marshall does not like you or your style.
As you (or I) do not have a significant shareholding, he can ignore you (or us).
I have already stated my Agenda.
Unless we can "marshall" significant votes, nothing will change.
I note that there was no change in strategy for LFI, still a donkey with 1 leg.

[topvest] 30/9/2014 20:04

I think management are better than you make out. They have created some very good businesses over time, but they DIDN'T LEARN a key lesson of taking profits on the way up. If they had done that better on Finsbury Food, Sanctuary Music or whatever it was called and MWB to name but a few then they would have generated better returns. I agree you should hold on to great investments, but none of these are great. They are good businesses with some cyclical characteristics.

Hartim and Creston are both very good businesses and should be worth more in the future than they are today.

Swallowfield is a bit more of a basic company lacking competitive advantage, but has the ability to do reasonably under strong management.

[smithie6] 30/9/2014 19:01

Topvest

recent Paul Scott comment on VP

(one could consider a similar opinion...for NBI....but assume written in 1 years time)

"My opinion - I wish I'd bought some of these when I saw management present at an EDIF event early last year. They impressed me at the time, but I decided (wrongly) that the shares were a little too pricey. The shares have doubled since then!

I'll have a think about this one - it still looks quite attractive, as a reasonably-priced growth company, in my view."

[smithie6] 30/9/2014 18:25

Topvest
topslicing

did they topslice in order to increase SWL investment ?
paying 180p per SWL share
now worth 100p....

wasnt a good move

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Hartim investment
at present it is almost a dud
book value was below investment cost....after 5 or so years....



the bod has imo no skill or experience or qualifications in investing in inlisted cos......not even VCT qualification


You and I have probably each read more IPO docs. than the board members have....we have time to do it, they dont !....and we have ignored/rejected many/most of them as over priced.
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the older and wiser I get my investing choices are tending more and more to investing in "step and repeat " companies.....often boring ...and often limited to say 20-30% year gain ....but often they outperform the average of small caps with lots of promise but which often dont deliver ( I could reel off a list of recent ones that have seen large price falls)

so I think (as I have posted before) that a strategy a la Artmeis or Blackrock smaller co. funds would be the best solution. Noting that ALL funds al la Artemis etc have pummelled/thrashed Western performance over the last 10, 15 or 20 years.
If invested in bigger cos.....if the dirs. are not delivering.....just sell.....
whereas if invested in unlisted cos. then you can not get out !

Read VCT co. reports to see what I mean...and then I think that readers will perhaps agree with me.