Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[theklf] 10/11/2016 09:56

Don't get me wrong I was not criticising. Just pointing out that UK has example of a listed successful (commercially and investment return-wise) small materials technology firm which has shown the path a VRS can follow.

[theklf] 10/11/2016 09:48

TP, sorry I don't know Haydale so it was obviously somebody else.

It was a pleasure to meet and talk to other investors. Some of the guys there were clearly long term investors who are on first name terms with the CEO. It certainly gives a nice impression that they are clearly so good at cultivating relationships with investors and customers.

[the prophet] 10/11/2016 09:37

TheKLF
were you the guy who had an interest in Haydale? if so, pleased to meet you, briefly, yesterday.
CRDA, that was my old company! Well, unfortunately I didn't own it but I ran one of their companies for a time.

[theklf] 10/11/2016 09:07

I attended this event because I have an interest in companies in adjacent sectors so have no position in VRS so am unbiased on the discussion here.

My overall impressions were very favourable and concur with much of the earlier discussion from people who obviously understand the graphene sector better than I.

I am quite surprised that superg1 who otherwise seems clued up and a diligent researcher had never come across Victrex?! I don't think Victrex 'claim' to be leaders in PEEK i'd go so far as to say they invented it and own it completely. I've known about Victrex for about 10 years, it has been a great UK small/mid cap stock which has grown steadily to now become a £1.5bn company. I would group it alongside other UK mid cap tech stories like ROR,RSW,CRDA etc
I find it very encouraging that VRS are looking to emulate Victrex.

Keep up the good work and discussion here. Makes refreshing change from many other bulletin boards.

[mr dexy] 10/11/2016 08:39

Is your shed full SG?

:)

[superg1] 10/11/2016 08:29

Anyone not seeing their trades? I added and no sign of it on the systems.

[superg1] 10/11/2016 08:03

I'll give it an hour or so then some other bits.

[superg1] 10/11/2016 07:38

No problem Mr Dexy for me that's the whole point of such threads to share info we found open for discussion

More to come today with some interesting points and a whole lot more work to do. I know another that went and some assumptions and figures he had prior to attending were knocked out of the park.

It also comes down to understanding the importance of what was said. For some a line may make no sense for others it's highly significant.

EG the scientists said (in a chat) in some cases there was no need for dispersion as the GNPs readily dispersed which brings me back to the find about production of GNPs without the surface tension that cause them to clump. He said it was not the same for all. You may note I have banged on about dispersion tech needed, well they quite clearly have a method of very effective dispersion but can't talk about it yet. I doubt many thought to ask "How did you disperse it". I did a few times. I had it as a question to ask but it was there in front of me proven.

Here is an easy view page to show poor and effective dispersion. All products looked like item 3 on this page. In fact everyine was handed a GNP enhanced key fob which if they look has suoperb dispersion otherwise it would look like picture 2.



I recall one guy as mentioned asking what standard tests were made against (fair question) and it made him quite negative with assumptions it proves nothing as you could choose low grade etc. Anyone that attended will tell you that BS is not what VRS are about, they are the complete opposite. As stated on that topic they quoted Virtrex as the standard who claim to be a world leader in PEEK.

[mr dexy] 09/11/2016 20:54

SG & TP,

I'm sure I can speak on behalf of all posters and lurkers in passing on our thanks to you both for not only making the effort to attend the presentation today, but also your generosity in sharing your thoughts and findings...

Very much appreciated, thank you.

Regards to all

Mr D

[superg1] 09/11/2016 18:55

The bit in the news (anyone else home yet)

52% improvement in transverse sheer strength of Carbon fibre reinforced plastic
-- 32% improvement in the ultimate tensile strength of the epoxy matrix
-- 30% improvement in longitudinal modulus of carbon reinforced plastic

Craig the 2D tech scientist explained the test was with aligned carbon fibre all strands the same way. That way they could test the strength of the resin at a right angle the the carbon fibre and along it's length. The right angle being a direct representation of the resin strength.

So as you can see a 52% improvement re the resin itself and along the line of the carbon fibre which should be the strongest way a 30% improvement.

As the CEO said increases of 2-3% are seen as big.

[superg1] 09/11/2016 18:46

Coating barriers and a bit of chuckle re that.

Graphene enhanced coatings blokc all oxygen and water getting through so in theory as long as you keep a ship covered it will never rust.

In knowledge of that soemone wanted 5 ships done NOW. Which in reality is way beyond the amount of graphene currently available and a hell of a lot of paint.

[superg1] 09/11/2016 18:42

Printer heads. No capability to produce at the moment but there was an example/prototype (don't switch off those things can be 6 metres wide).

I think that was through Able engineering or something like that.

Discussions about the advantage on weight and durabilty v metal heads.

EG the large heads are made of Aluminium and require a crane for removal and refitting when they change them. With the composite version 2 people can do the change. Talk of more durable and longer life and a perhaps unexpected better print. The reason identified is graphene is Hydrophobic so no doubt less friction in the inkjets/nozzles. Guy I spoke to not sure but thought it was a .5% loading in the example.

[superg1] 09/11/2016 18:33

Again tell me if I got this wrong.

One of the stronger types of polymers/plastics is known as PEEK.

The tests showed performmnace imporvements with PEEK as in the news. One guy asked what that was set against. Victrex PEEK was mentioned as a standard to work off. I'd never heard of Vitrex.

'VICTREX PEEK is regarded as one of the highest performing engineering
thermoplastics in the world. It has more than 35 years of proven performance
in demanding environments, and Victrex customers can benefit from its
high performance properties and our unmatched technical expertise.'

[superg1] 09/11/2016 18:25

Shavian

I have passed that on and will follow it up but they were busy today as we were not the only visitors. I'll comment on that tomorrow unless someone else does first of course.

[superg1] 09/11/2016 18:23

On the junk GNPs topic.

The market is full of useless junk. So then a punter goes cheap tries it out and finds that GNPs in their eyes are useless.

Same issues as I keep stating you need high purity, few layer and effective dispersion. Without all of those components you are likely to get terrible results. High purity few layer and poor dispersion and you have the same issue.

The CEO says he has seen countless papers where over 10 layers sees dramatic drops in performance, that's why they wanted few layer product and the tech.

Re the NGI trials

It was commented that the NGI looked at GNPs and it was simple choice as they knew VRS GNPs work.

On the UOM 19.4p deal. UOM wanted shares VRS said we consider the share price too cheap so reluctant so UOM upped the conversion to get shares. As the CEO said that tells it's own story about what the UOM think of 2D tech and it's graphene potential. An obvious assumption but it is as simple as we thought.

On the NGI OEM some can help if I heard this wrong. The original was the NGI talking to the OEM then order GNPs from VRS if there was to be a deal. It's now changed to VRS talking to the OEM directly with the statement that they don't know if an order will come but they would release news if such an order did materialise.

[superg1] 09/11/2016 17:39

Shavian

I have a bit of an unwanted following for sticking my nose into other shares but it's often down to having an interest, looking deeply, then on occasions finding some very suspect claims or just plain lies in news and reports.

I can't help it I don't short them I just like to try and warn PIs who get screwed all the time, but unfortunately it can be a pointless task as people get blinkered by news and what tipsters say.

AGM seems to have no BB following so no harm in saying it as I see it.


EG here is one for you, I understand VRS recently doubled production capacity on GNPs and they don't do that for the sake of it.

As others can confirm GNPs have a limited useful life for reasons including them trying to attach to each other if sat on a shelf for too long which defeats the point of them. Once in a product that issue has gone.

VRS are more than happy for the people wanting samples to pay £400 per gram for them. Imo if you lower the price with so much junk out there then what your offering may be suspecetd to be junk due to the price.

[shavian] 09/11/2016 16:18

SG: did you get to ask them if they would welcome the intro to MoneyWeek?

Well done you and TP, sounds great. Looking forward to your deeper insights later.

Can't see the presentations on the website yet - will look again later

Decent volume today, 522,292 between the two sites, mostly showing as buys, some at 12.145p Spread now 11.50 - 12.25p

PS: Just glancing through AGM's website for fun, I note that their Chief Commercial Officer rejoices in the appropriate name of Blatherwick. I agree - little of interest to see there - please move along

[the prophet] 09/11/2016 15:52

Posted my initial reaction on the wrong thread, sorry. Here it is: Very good meeting, think this company is going places.Will try to write more in next day or so, but on me way back home now.Good to meet several fellow VRS investors, it was well attended and what they had to say was well worth the very early start.SG has already made some of the most important points.My main concern was can they produce high quality GNP in volume and at a commercial price both for the customer and for VRS. The answer is a resounding 'yes' and that was backed up both in the meeting and afterwards talking as to why that is the case.

[superg1] 09/11/2016 15:23

Btw

My view of AGM has changed from junk to cesspit status. I believe I was right all along to be suspicious of AGM BS.

Appologies if anyone is in it but I've done enough digging on the sector and them to form that view. Just my opinion DYOR

[superg1] 09/11/2016 15:08

I must say I was very impressed after that visit and will for now will try and keep it brief. I could probably go on and do 30 long posts on various topics after that.

I am mindful some attendees had a long journey back and some of them may wish to consider adding or they if they didn't have any to get some.

A lot of questions were answered and some points and uses I hadn't even thought of.

So without saying too much at this time here is a list of points that I have raised in many posts which are answered

Dispersion

VRS presented various items containing gnps so clearly they have dispersion. Questions around that can't be answered at this time.

Viability on cost

I have no concerns about that and I'm very pleased to say the least.

Confusion about why VRS seems quiet and unnoticed.

There was no need to ask details as the strategy on that was given at the start. Suffice to say you don't shout about a gold find with gold fever vultures looking for leases.

Cash/funding

I have no reason to believe there will be dilution at this time.

Back later lots to post about. We weren't the only visitors.

[affc21] 09/11/2016 08:46

Very much look forward to any feedback from attendees at today's event.I must Thank the contributors (SuperG1, Shavian, the prophet, etc) to this thread for sharing their respective research, it's very much appreciated with all the hard work that they put in. Thanks.I was hoping perhaps at last minute to be able to attend, but work commitments have to come first, which is unfortunate as I am sure it will be a very interesting day with lot's to learn.

[superg1] 09/11/2016 08:32

Will do Affc.

I will also mention Hexcel and the apparent 'invite' they have.

TBC but it seems that doc about GNPs that don't have the clumping issue are VRS GNPs. Will find out for sure this morning.

That is a huge problem for the sector so I'll be interested to hear how that may change the approach needed for dispersion.

I've not seen any mention of those type of GNPs before. That's where Hsydale fit it with dispersion on the problematic GNPs.

[shavian] 09/11/2016 07:56

Hexcel realism about Nanomaterials hype. See slide 19. Perhaps they will buy VRS one day

[affc21] 09/11/2016 07:26

Not able to attend myself, due to work commitments. Unfortunately.Question for anyone attending:Are GNP enhanced plastics recyclable, without losing any of it's benefits?