Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[the prophet] 03/11/2016 12:28

lol!
reply and note sent,
cheers tp

[mr dexy] 03/11/2016 12:13

TP,

PM sent...

Red Thumb given...

Planning permission for garage applied for...

:)

Regards


Mr D

[the prophet] 03/11/2016 12:00

I have the WH Ireland broker's note dated 3rd October 2016, if anyone wants a copy pm me and i will send it on.

[the prophet] 03/11/2016 11:56

btw, seems we have a persistent 'red thumber' on the thread!.....no doubt this post will get the same treatment!

[the prophet] 03/11/2016 11:55

interest does seem to be increasing in VRS, witness volume of shares gone up since around early October. A recent thread has been started on Michael Walters bb site on VRS and seems to be well received.

I've got around 25% of what I would ideally like, the rest is subject to satisfactory answers on a range of questions, hopefully some answers on those next Wednesday.
Guess I've got a 'garage worth', slight upgrade on garden shed!

[superg1] 03/11/2016 11:45

Good spot re Allianz such a small sell under 4000 shares as if to get them under the 5% to get rid of the rest without notification.

It's been sat on 10p since about mid July with low volumes and since that holdings announcement.

Come early October and post news the volumes have shot up and no one here seems to be declaring large buying just first phase interest so perhaps someone under 3% perhpas new to VRS has been taking up the supply.

On the volumes through October if it was Allianz most if not all of it may well be gone by now, but there may be others.

I'm not sure if some know the rules re the 5% and 10% lot so here it is.

The UK one is 3% and every 1% up or down after that with no obligations to notify under 3%

Non-UK companies: the relevant percentages which trigger
the requirement to notify are 5%, 10%, 15%, 20%, 30%,
50% and 75%. As for UK companies, any increase or
decrease in the holding over the relevant integer
percentage threshold will require a notification

It seems there are a few that have been watching and some declared via messages to me but not on here yet.

[superg1] 03/11/2016 11:09

Mr Dexy an excellent post

re

there are still some important questions to be answered before staking the house on this.. although... having a garden shed's worth at this point might ( or might not ) prove ... interesting... as the story develops.

Hence my desire for questions to be answered on composite/platics performance enhancement data. Level of inclusion .1% or 1% etc, the ability to scale up, scale up costs and overall costs.

Viable data, scale up capability, and production costs are what is holding the market back. In particular bulk capabilty is what the mark is missing but then that is of no use if the unit costs are prohibitive

VRS have hinted they have that cracked but first must come data to show there is an advantage with enhanced products and it seems we get to hear about that on the 9th.

So I learn as much as I can so I understand what is being said. I'm the inquisitive type and I sense there is some excitement around what they have achieved on their side.

Theree are some crazy MCs about like AGM compared to what they have actually achieved. Their plus is tight shares and a recent trend with what appears to be holder lack of knowledge or accepting what AGM say. I've been there a dozen times or more with companies who put out misleading news or just plain lies.

There are only about 5-7 mill shares available on AGM due to the large holders none of which appear to be an insti, so it has the pleasure of a large cap based on tight shares and long term holders. The high share price also removes big dilution issues unless of course their method to scale up is expensive. With 42 employees and plans to increase capacity then they will soon burn through cash and fund raise again.


It's a case of ignoring M/Cs and concentrating on the business for those involved, but the key is to understand it, otherwise fishing rod news seems material when I suspect it's not even pocket money levels.

[the prophet] 03/11/2016 11:00

cheers, agree with that.
I've kept a weather eye on VRS for a while, but not closely watched. They looked 'interesting' , then the Carbide division was hit by the oil slump and seemed best to let them sit on the back-burner for a while.
Re the 5% and 10% for overseas rule, I wondered if Allianz are subject to that.

[superg1] 03/11/2016 10:42

The Prophet

Same here and as on another thread I said "let em sell" as the price was dropping, why offer up higher prices of them?

In the VRS case if you check the 26p spike that was due to presentations that week to funds and analysts. Post that the oil trouble came and you may note the drop in revenue and warnings on the topic on the Carbide side. I took that to be the share price slide driver which in all honesty being selfish was handy as a lurking buyer.

Matters in play now like the move forward on heat sinks, GNPs and the recent plastics factory were not in play then.

The current supply only became apparent after some buying started. It had sat on 10p going nowhere for some time. I'm not sure how long you have been watching but it seemed a lot of the early volume in October involved back door trades with plenty of late reports and trades on the mid price which is typical for a fund ringing around for the loose stock.

In fact when Black rock went on a small cap dumping spree some years ago I hoped around looking for where they had holdings and SPs mysteriously dropping and oversold and made some cash on the back of timing re those when BR finished.

Hence with Brexit and other doom with BR as a holder I considered it may be them.

BR often work on the 5 and 10% breach overseas rule, not the 1% above 3% triggers we often see.

Other random dumping goes on when a fund has a change of manager. A manager simply may not like certain sectors and dump all stock related to those so they can acquire what they do like within that fund.

A small cap fund manager with BR did die in recent times and VRS was in there small cap fund.

Good to keep an eye on those things imo as when a supply has gone we know how shares can bounce. Things look really tight on Directa plus and AGM on that front with daft moves on very small volumes.

EG AGM is about 25% higher on very little volume since the fishing rod deal which could be just grams of GNPs and most likley is.

If you are talking .1% inclusion for a whole rod that weights a few ozs then you are talking about 8 grams for every 100 rods. If the deal is just about a weak point in the rod (Eg the tip). Then 8 grams could do 100's of rods.

I use .1% by weight as VRS quote that in a video for plastics as transforming it's properties and just .01% for packaging.

If people don't understand the tech they they can't possibly understand the potential or what a deal may return for them.

Will Battrick left and had a few but he would be subject to the 1% moves. I have investigated why he left (which should be no surprise) and I'm happy with what I learned but it's not cricket imo the share personal details on a public forum.

I'll look up Allianz

[the prophet] 03/11/2016 09:59

interesting points, thanks to all.
I've benefitted in the past from situations where institutions sell out of small caps and push prices down very low to present attractive opps. The most recent one was FBT last October, shares could be bought for 5p and quite easily sold on numerous occasions for 10p-13p.
Not sure if that is happening here, and the selling is not indiscriminate. Allianz did announce reducing their stake below 5% back in August, although the VRS web-site has yet to update for this, but perhaps it's Allianz?

[superg1] 03/11/2016 09:09

UK advanced composites sector

The International Centre for Advanced Materials (ICAM) is a BP funded research centre leading research that seeks to advance the fundamental understanding and use of advanced materials across a variety of energy and industrial applications. Established in 2012, the ten-year $100m investment programme is modelled on a "Hub and Spoke" structure, with the "hub" located within The University of Manchester.





Rolls-Royce is today announcing that Bristol will be the location for a centre of advanced fan system composite technology development, creating a hub of composite knowledge in the UK and securing 120 jobs in the city by the end of 2019. This advanced manufacturing facility will be at the forefront of developing the next generation of fan blades and fan cases, made of carbon-fibre composite materials, for Rolls-Royce’s future aero-engines.

I'll cover some more but that one just caught my attention re the last line.

the forefront of developing the next generation of fan blades and fan cases, made of carbon-fibre composite materials, for Rolls-Royce’s future aero-engines.

Now the NGI is partnered with Rolls Royce and it was just announced about carbon fibre results with VRS GNPS. So there is one OEM from the list looking at advanced materials in that sector

[mr dexy] 03/11/2016 08:52

SG,

It would be a pleasant suprise if the seller is Blackrock as the the sales seem to have been made in a considered manner... releasing stock as demand has increased recently, whilst still allowing the share price to rise gently... not exactly something BR have been known for in the past!

I'm pretty sure TP has been around long enough to know that even with the ducks apparently falling into line ( with the acquistions, management and collaborations etc ) and even with the excellent research you have been kind enough to share... there are still some important questions to be answered before staking the house on this.. although... having a garden shed's worth at this point might ( or might not ) prove ... interesting... as the story develops.

I cant help but come back to the debt conversion at 19.14p... not exactly an obvious number to settle on.. and whilst UOM have an obvious self interest and belief in the story... and my opinion of academia's financial acumen is somewhat low... I can't help but feel a good case must have been made to convince them that they have got somewhat of a bargain...

As ever, all in my humble opinion, dyor etc

Regards to all


Mr D

[superg1] 03/11/2016 08:21

On the seller

I did note Black rock are a holder and typically I have seen them just dump shares in small caps. With the patterns that have been going on re late trades the MMS have been very sneaky, so my thought process is let them sell at these low levels.

I'm speculating that whoever it is may be near and end as the MMs have ticked it up slowly.

[superg1] 03/11/2016 08:09

I only have a few for now. While nobody seems to be looking that much imo there is no rush and with the steady supply it helps.

That gives time for things to slot into place on the information side.

Short term as you will see everyone is asking about cash but in losses terms VRS don't burn that much. £1 mill didn't seem to be enough for running of the company and the acquisition.

It's a factor no doubt that keep some waiting.

On the options for that VRS already state they have a banking facility and list invoice discounting. Last time they mentioned that they had £600-£700k headroom as I recall. With the acquisition of AAC and £4 mill of revenue if AAC don't use that facility then in theory 3 months of backlog it offers up £1 mill via that route.

But then with others in the business with M/Cs of £30 to £50 million it seems madness that VRS should have been on £10 mill. As demonstrated 2D tech looks well ahead of some yet has costs 10 times less than those.

Other sources of funding could be in play like the government innovate route. I thought it was a share of £15 mill up for grabs, but it's various amounts for various sectors which includes sectors VRS are in

So it was cheap at 10p and if they can go bulk on few layer GNPs, carbon fibre results are good same for plastic can scale up and have disperison, then imo it's a cheap share much higher up too.

But on the funding side look how much the government are prepared to throw into the aerospace sector. It has been said for some time that the gov want the UK to be the lead re graphene and advanced materials engineering etc.

The Aerospace Technology Institute (ATI) research and technology (R&T) programme represents a £3.8bn joint government and industry investment. Its purpose is to maintain and grow the UK’s competitive position in aerospace design and manufacture.

Applications for this funding are different to standard Innovate UK competitions. Strategic fit is assessed by ATI through 2 progressive gateways before being independently assessed by Innovate UK.

There is plenty of comment around about the need for lightweight advanced composites in the Aerospace sector.

I have no idea if VRS would apply for or get a slice of that. On the aerospace side but they are linked with CT engineering

"AIM quoted advanced engineering materials group and CT Engineering Group UK Ltd are pleased to announce that they have entered into a Memorandum of Understanding ("MOU") to develop novel graphene enhanced composite components for the aerospace industry using Versarien's graphene technology."

Paul Chinnock, General Manager,CT Engineering Group UK, commented: "Our work with Versarien will allow us to develop a whole new generation of aerospace components with market leading material properties and performance levels.

I'll come back to that as there is a lot going on in the composites sector in the UK re the advanced composites sector.

But on the Aerospace side the National graphene institute where VRS are deep inside NGI partners include on the aerospace side Lockheed, Rolls Royce and Airbus.

Now go back to the CTI news from their CEO

"The unique combination of CT Engineering's position as a first tier supplier to Airbus Group specialising in advanced composite research and design"

Now flip over to a non exec director of Versarien

Iain Gray CBE
Non-executive Director

Iain has spent his executive career at the highest levels within the aerospace sector, initially with British Aerospace before becoming engineering director of Airbus UK. After 27 years in the sector, Iain was, in 2007, appointed chief executive of Innovate UK (formerly the Technology Strategy Board)

I'll add in a post later linking bits up I have noted re the drive for advanced composites.

So in short I'm not too worried about any funding but as there is no need to rush while supply is about it allows reduction of risk through further info that may become available.

If I learn the supply is near done (I'm digging re that) I may change my mind.

While we can't ask on the 9th if they have funding planned what we can ask is confirmation of the last comment on that in news.

[the prophet] 02/11/2016 20:08

Thanks for the competitor analysis SG1.Out of interest are you still a buyer of VRS or have you already accumulated your stake?Feel free to tell me to mind my own business!For my part I've got a decent toe-hold but would like further info and perhaps some idea of what their financing plans are. They look like they could do with at least another few mill in the bank to give a level of comfort. The invoice factoring route can be a costly way of providing cash.

[superg1] 02/11/2016 17:55

The Prophet

If you note others in the sector and on the market most do just Graphene or products linked to graphene like GO and RGO.

I pick on AGM as they seem to have excessive staff and expense to VRS and are way behind VRS on the GNP curve.

AGM now have 42 staff including the bosses churning through over £3 mill in wage related costs each year and up to the year end results recently seem to have made no progess at all re their plan.

I am told for VRS to achieve their GNP and related products it involves 5 staff.

The operational loss for 2D-tech was £300k for AGM is was over £4 million.

Details in AGM news suggest a 2 week 24 hrs period to produce GNPs did so at less then .25 grams per hour which is 50 times slower than the high grade VRS GNPs which can be scaled up on demand.

So if you just leave it as 2D tech v AGM then 2D tech are way ahead with 10% of the costs yet AGM somehow (no doubt due to the BS) have a £40 mill M/C.

Directa Plus similar costs but more traction (£400k revenue) and they have a £52 mill M/C having been quite a bit higher.

If you drill down into Directa most of their product is the low end but they can't rsist calling some of their product 'graphene-based materials' well pencil lead is a graphene-based material.

Then they talk about ultra G+ which is described as 'consists of graphene structures' and 'thickness of tens of nanometres' In others words it's ground up graphite not graphene or GNPs.

It's those lower level grades that make up most of their sales, thy do claim to have few layer GNPs but say very little about it. They do have the bike tyres but all their interest seems to be from Italy only.

Results only cover a few months as a newcomer but on the details it looks like they will burn £5 mill to £10 mill per year.

VRS

They have an entirely different approach, their money has gone into acquisitions where it has involved long standing companies. Companies with a list of well known customers. With AAC recently add that means a full year of revenue ignoring the potential of 2D tech and related products as somewhere in the region of £8 to £10 million.

Imo VRS have a material lead and all depending on what they reveal on the 9th, we may learn they have broken out for the pack and did so at costs 10 times less than those around them.

I'll say it again why on earth do AGM have 42 staff, they aren't doing anything it seems.

[the prophet] 02/11/2016 17:22

Thanks, superg1.I must admit I wasn't aware of the differerent types of graphene until researching VRS and reading this thread.VRS have an interesting business model and perhaps it's one that gives them more chance of success than many of the blue sky stocks I've seen on the market.I hope to make next week's investor do, providing the alarm goes off at some ridiculously early hour!

[the prophet] 02/11/2016 15:09

interesting company and informative thread, thanks superg1.

Don't know if this one has been posted



Manchester University takes shares in Versarien at huge premium

12:14 31 Oct 2016

Versarien acquired 85% of graphene application specialist 2-DTech in 2014 from the university.

Manchester University was where graphene was isolated

University of Manchester (UoM) is to take shares in engineering group Versarien PLC (LON:VRS) at a massive premium to the market price following on from the sale of 2- DTech.

Versarien acquired 85% of graphene application specialist 2-DTech in 2014 from the university.

This latest agreement will see £191,500 of loans and collaboration fees converted into Versarien shares at a price of 19.14p, compared with a current market price of 11.65p. The new shares amount to 0.83% of Versarien’s shares in issue. UoM owns the remaining 15% of 2-DTech.

Neill Ricketts, Versarien’s chief executive, said: “This deal further strengthens the relationship between the company and UoM, the home of graphene.”

Clive Rowland, chief executive of UMI3, UoM's innovation company, said graphene applications are coming ever closer to becoming products and the involvement with 2-DTech was an important bridge between the work taking place on campus and potential customers for graphene in a range of industry sectors.

[superg1] 02/11/2016 14:21

I think he is on at 3.15pm with others

[superg1] 02/11/2016 14:06

I'm trying to find the innovate uk live stream as the Vrs CEO is speaking today and tomorrow.

Out and about at the moment so struggling to find it.

[superg1] 02/11/2016 10:46

I take it from the adverts that business on the Carbide side has picked up.

[superg1] 02/11/2016 10:43

Having mentioned Carbide it did mention green shoots of recovery post oil doom, new sectors and a new order.

So on that side I tried to look up if there had been job cuts and one of the first hits was this.

They look busy on recruitment



Due to an expanding market we have vacancies for

full time

Internal sales engineer

We are looking for an internal sales engineer to strengthen our team for our new site at Westcott. Good I.T. skills and telephone manner are as important for this role as the ability to work both, as an individual and as a good team player.

If you are an enthusiastic and conscientious individual with an engineering or technical degree with 3 years experience and are interested in this position please send your details to:



Turning and Milling Operators with CNC experience

and

General Machine Operators/Machinists

for day, shift and weekend work in our pre-sintering/shaping department. We are looking for people who are able to work on their own initiative. This is an excellent opportunity to join one of the UK’s fastest growing materials technology companies in a temporary position, possibly leading to permanent employment. Full job specific training will be given for suitable applicants.