Utilitywise Share Discussion Threads

[nw99] 15/8/2016 08:46

Adding more here

[nw99] 12/8/2016 09:40

Looks good down here

[gswredland] 11/8/2016 17:05

Woodford still holds 27%? What a disaster for his fund.

[aishah] 10/8/2016 14:19

Small Cap report concludes:
"Overall - I find the company a little too accident-prone. So it's not for me. Also, I feel that Woodford has supported the price by repeated buying, and now holds 27.1%. What would the share price have fallen to, without him mopping up a lot of the shares? What happens if he changes his mind? (Answer - he can't as that would trash the share price).

It's a bit of a can of worms this one, in my view."

[nw99] 09/8/2016 08:39

Good news on the CEO

[andrewbaker] 08/8/2016 16:39

It may be that the problem lies with the way business is done. New customers are acquired by high pressure sales, which may work for a long time, given that the business can retain the capable salespeople, not promote top closers to where their abilities cease to count so much, and actually give a good and worthwhile service/product/whatever after getting customers on board, and which is seen as cost effective. Some comment elsewhere suggests that value for money is not as good as it is presented at point of sale.

So, overall, there appear to be several areas to work on; which I hope the company wants to and can do; else when the forward accountancy that suggests significant business increases runs out at the other end, which will come in time, there will be a major rush for the exit by existing shareholders; myself included, given that I wait that long. (I'd rather take a small loss and shrug, than hold on for a big one and cry!)

[eddie1980] 08/8/2016 09:52

just checked morningstar, and revenue and EBIT both 10% below forecast - as expecting £91m revenues, and £20m EBITDA

[eddie1980] 08/8/2016 09:44

On the 75% of revenues coming from new customers, I think you are missing something which is UTW account for their expected revenue from the contract up front even if over 12 months - they claim they are required to do this under accounting standard.

So, if they have multiyear contracts, you are going to see a lot of 'new' revenues until the renewal of existing contracts after say 3 years. But as they are still in growth phase, majority will come through as new revenues (as potentially no sales in prior two years are renewing yet if on a 3 year contract).

It was this upfront revenue recognition which causes the cashflow issue, but they have improved this by managing to negotiate more upfront cash payments on the contracts as well.

[oregano] 08/8/2016 09:08

at 6x EBITDA you don't need growth. the cashflow is more important. It is hard to comment on the sustainability until we have seen the split between these one off negotiations with suppliers, and ongoing generation. But i'd buy rather than sell down here.

[nw99] 08/8/2016 09:05

Added more here

[qs99] 08/8/2016 08:53

Interesting, doesn't have to grow much Imo, for net cash generation to start being material now debt is almost gone....? If you think there is no business model then no, but if you think it has a sustainable position then Imo, equity play and yield could be interesting...dyor etc

[nw99] 08/8/2016 08:30

UTW also debt down significantly from £6.7m to £0.2m. Improved commercial terms

[nw99] 08/8/2016 07:48

"We continue to drive the transition within the two divisions and focus them on the longer term objective of building our Energy Services offering with a large customer base and adjacent revenue streams. The new management team will soon be complete and we look forward to the future with a great degree of confidence."

[blusteradjuster] 08/8/2016 07:47

They obviously have staff issues. Did the MD jump or was he pushed?

Their revenue model remains lumpy.

Cash position markedly improved though and MCap = 6 times EBIDTA which is a low rating.

Perhaps that low rating is deserved, we'll see in 12 mins.

[onjohn] 08/8/2016 07:39

Profit warning

[nw99] 08/8/2016 07:35

Looks good buying more

[bennywin] 08/8/2016 07:25

Not sure that I find this update to be too exciting either .

[kevph] 08/8/2016 07:23

If of course the revenue came from more than 5k incremental customers, does that mean they have a churn problem?

[kevph] 08/8/2016 07:19

Not stunning imo. 75% of revenues came from 5k new customers. Seems it's a case of acquire new customers or die, and they have a problem still with sales staff retention. Doesn't fill me with an overwhelming urge to invest in the business.

[pj 1] 27/7/2016 17:39

apologies wrong thread

[buffetteer] 13/7/2016 09:54

Sam
Interesting comments on the market thx . There s little capital employed making returns very high this the attraction i guess.
The only reason UTW has fallen so badly is profit warnings ( lower increases than expected) and lack of cash flow due to past supply agreements . These are being re-negotiated and will reverse later this year and into next year . For me it is more of s concern that Geoff is stepping down from Ceo role and no one yet to replace him -sounds like pressure from shareholders to me . I'm sitting on a 30% loss but feel it's worth holding for the cashflow improvement to come .

[sammarcwhite] 13/7/2016 09:23

Main thing holding this back imo is the lower energy costs seen over the last year or so. As wholesale gas prices rise (which they are starting to do again) then companies will be more inclined to search out savings again. Electrical energy costs has be pretty much stable which will have underpinned this service, but if/when energy costs rise again you'll see UTW take off once more. Staff retention isn't a major issue, there are a lot of small players in this market and sales guys jump ship. It's not an indication of UTW imo. Also, this market is highly fragmented and PE are active, buying up smaller players and consolidating to then sell on to the likes of Ameresco. There are great growth opertunities via acquisition, and as the market tightens both here and overseas I like this as a target for larger players like Ameresco Just my thoughts and experience of the sector

[nw99] 12/7/2016 16:19

Bought back in here today