Uil Share Discussion Threads

[praipus] 17/11/2016 11:56

Pleasure, I believe it's an ADVFN measure to counter SPAM type posting. Thanks for your posts of market intelligence and news.

[vacendak] 17/11/2016 10:33

@Praipus

Ah ah... this was the trick then.
Thanks for the tip.

I will edit the last few posts then and will try to remember in the future.

[praipus] 17/11/2016 10:06

Vacendak is there any chance you could add a capital "H" to your hyperlinks?

This would make them followable if you see what I mean. Thanks. Cheers P.

i.e.:



hxxp://www.uil.limited/

[vacendak] 17/11/2016 09:36

News about Optal/Optal Asia in HK:


The website does not say much indeed: There is no investor/shareholder section.

[morton2011] 15/11/2016 18:14

@V Auegan they bought into around 45 p a few years back and does seem to be perking up.

I have been thinking about all the ZDP shares that were bought by UIL in the Spring and they keep selling into the market. This is I was surprised to see the absolute level of debt was £ 243 million as of Oct 16 whereas it was £ 228 million in Oct 15. The fundraising etc in the Spring was said to be all about bringing down gearing so was anticipating they would have used the various sales to reduce absolute debt but that has not happened.

The big difference is there is £ 78 million of bank debt in 2016 and only £ 13 million in 2015. £ 25 million of the bank debt repayable in 6 months so assuming they do not raise any more and do pay it back its back to 2015 levels. Pay down the remaining £ 50 million over the next year or so and then reduce the roll over for the 2018 ZDP and that really will reduce the discount in share price to NAV.

Selling the ZDP debt they have for a book 'profit' does not remove the liability of the 6.5% interest that is accruing. It would seem a lot simpler to just cancel the debt and then the gearing reduces at no cost and the absolute debt level drops by over £ 6 million. The NAV should not change by much (i assume they have the ZDP at book cost and thus showing a small profit). The temptation may be to sell the debt and pay down the bank debt.

UIL would need to sell 4-5% of the portfolio to generate £ 25 million. ICM paid all those fees each year to manage the portfolio so hope they can do it without resorting to some new financing which will generate them even more fees.. got a feeling it will be the latter option.

Had a quick look at Optal via companies house which came out of VIX as per October factsheet - UIL have 3.7 million shares, a little over 5% of the total shares. It looks a solid investment and does fit in amongst its fintech companies. Not sure why they are not showing it as 'unlisted' on the factsheet as cannot see it being listed anywhere.

[vacendak] 15/11/2016 09:42

Trying to find some good news to cheer us up and forget about gold, RSG and emerging markets:
I have picked that up on the Augean thread, a post by Cheshire Man.


Augean has dropped from the UIL Ltd portfolio top-ten, but we still hold a good chunk. As of early July UIL Ltd held 20.55% of the company.
It is on the way up at the moment, hedging back towards its 2015 high. Of course, one must forget about the stratospheric valuations of 2004. The past is another country after all.

[davebowler] 14/11/2016 11:16

Just bought more at £151.8 . Not a bad price.

[vacendak] 14/11/2016 09:03

Infratil (ASX:IFT) published its interim report on Armistice Day:


While the returns are technically slightly up, the debt seems to balloon.
The excuse is that the debt was too low last time due to some asset realisation:
"The low level of debt funding utilised at the start of
the period reflected recent asset sales and was
sub-optimal for a company with Infratil’s risk profile."
To be fair, the new debt is at a better deal (4.9% and 5.5% instead of 8.5%).

I had noticed the share price drop two weeks ago but forgot to comment on it.


They mention the poor showing in the interim report:

"The current share price in the market is a
disappointing measure of what we believe to be
Infratil’s intrinsic value and credible growth
prospects. It is never clear whether sharemarket
prices reflect market supply/demand dynamics or
some more potentially long-term circumstance."

UIL Ltd tends to be more contrite when the share price is down, they are "disappointed" but usually say something on the lines of "we shall try to do better". Infratil blames the market... No sure it is a good sign.

Infratil is down to 4.1% of the UIL Ltd portfolio now, so it is unlikely to be responsible for last Friday's catastrophic - or at least worrying - drop.

[morton2011] 11/11/2016 16:15

I don't follow Gold as agree with the Buffet view on it generally hxxp://commodityhq.com/education/top-seven-warren-buffett-quotes-on-gold-investing/ but are not all Gold miners being sold off at moment? GDX one of the biggest ETF to track miners has have fallen significantly in last few days. Some other Australian Gold miners have big falls. So if anyone thinks UIL a way to invest into Gold then maybe they decided to bale out. 138 p very low with all that said to sell at 09:30 but maybe that was a limit sale and someone else selling at 145.

UIL seem quite clever on Resolute as they were sellers at the high points and did not participate in the fundraising at AUS$1.96. They may well become buyers again at these prices.

The price at £1.55 too tempting to ignore for me, I get the dividend as well so added today. Out of interest the buy / sell prices on LSE (162 buy : 152 sell) didn't match the buy price I was offered to buy at £ 1.55 earlier but then could not get a price at all to sell any significant volume which I checked out of interest.

[spectoacc] 11/11/2016 15:30

Gold tanking again - but I still can't think of anything I'd rather be in. We're in for a rough few months, Trump doesn't even get sworn in until late January! Market pop simply ridiculous, we're surely going down on the uncertainty.

[spectoacc] 11/11/2016 11:44

And from 8th, so will be even lower now. Still cheap tho!

Wonder if we'll see the big (50k?) trade that caused the drop - or will have to wait a few days.

[vacendak] 11/11/2016 10:32

From the FastFT:

"Gold miners and companies exposed to emerging markets – including Aberdeen Asset Management and Standard Chartered – are among the biggest fallers, but financial groups have also lost some of their earlier gains, with the Euro Stoxx Banks Index down 0.6 per cent at publication time, having risen 1.4 per cent at the open."

Note: I only read the FT because I have a free Premium account from work. Do not judge me on reading that rag. :)

Still good for the market data though.

[Edit]
RNS on the NAV:


Another drop: 311.90 (was 316.11p)

[vacendak] 11/11/2016 10:01

@Specto

Yes, when I saw the strange drop in gold last night, I was considering adding a bit in gold today on the cheap.

And... might as well do it sometimes today indded, it is now below £995.

[vacendak] 11/11/2016 09:58

Maybe Duncan Saville got a bad reaction to his flu jab...

Seriously, wishing the man to live a long and healthy life.

[spectoacc] 11/11/2016 09:58

Hopefully we'll still think that by the end of the day @eeza.. ;)

Perhaps -9% UTL isn't far off, when Resolute -11% & gold/gold stocks fallen more subsequently. Though I still think gold is where I want to be when Trump's going to be President.

[eeza] 11/11/2016 09:49

MM's fishing for stops - and got 1 at 138p. He was definitely robbed.

[spectoacc] 11/11/2016 09:49

Has to be a big, unpublished sell - but good point on EM, eg ASHM/ADN both suffering, & of course RRS/FRES/HOC/ACA/CEY on gold's retreat.

I see someone bought 10 shares too - suspect that wasn't the number they meant to type in.. :)

[vacendak] 11/11/2016 09:45

One big 10,000 buy at 150p just in.

[vacendak] 11/11/2016 09:44

I have just read that Trump = big spending.
Effect of the $ on Emerging markets likely to be negative.

UIL Ltd has gold and EM, still... as Specto has just said this could be the gearing.
Then again, the gearing is only about half of what it was last year. 68% is not good, but not as catastrophic as 100+% as it used to be.

[spectoacc] 11/11/2016 09:40

The reaction against gold seems extraordinary to me - uncertainty reigns. But can't buck the market, and maybe -11% Resolute is enough to send highly geared UTL south. Feels like it must be some news somewhere else tho.

[vacendak] 11/11/2016 09:35

Just done a "UIL Ltd" search on Google/Bing with "Last 24h".
Nothing shows up, even under "news".

[Edit]
UEM dropping too but not as much.

[spectoacc] 11/11/2016 09:34

1.38/1.50 online fwiw, so bias very much to the low side (not getting inside bid at all). Either it's a big seller, or it's news on a holding (or macro - any deposed presidents?).

[vacendak] 11/11/2016 09:32

What the ....?

I have just checked on other places (Telegraph investor) and yes, the last two trades show a sharp drop.