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SCHE -3x Short China

7.4863
-0.245 (-3.17%)
28 Mar 2024 - Closed
Delayed by 15 minutes
Name Symbol Market Type
-3x Short China LSE:SCHE London Exchange Traded Fund
  Price Change % Change Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Traded Last Trade
  -0.245 -3.17% 7.4863 7.469 7.5035 - 0 16:35:04

-3x Short China Discussion Threads

Showing 8501 to 8524 of 8550 messages
Chat Pages: 342  341  340  339  338  337  336  335  334  333  332  331  Older
DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
10/8/2011
21:12
i said some time back that SX would end up broken up. it was on the cards before the LG funding was starting to be cut. the board knew it an so made up their mind to up pick the pieces out of the ashes. then try to hold everyone to ransom lol. the board will probably be the new owners of the more succulent homes and with no debt! da da!
it never helped that they are still paying £200k pa for an empty property - they were (previous management included) clueless.
my sympathies to all sucked in. ive been there. sucked in.ripped off. not nice.
all in my own honest opinion of of course

jettyboy
10/8/2011
16:54
warwick thanks for the feedback - do you mean skr or ner coming back? Have you got 80k shares in SKR? Good luck ether way
johncraven
10/8/2011
12:48
JC cant see it i also have 80k of shares and its painful but expect never coming back bloody board have shafted all investors and it stinks of corruption of the highest order Blackrock and Private Equity screwed every one here. Looting of a massive order dispicable
warwick69
09/8/2011
16:52
mav just out of interest SKR has had a similiar thing happen today. As you seem clued up what do you think of SKR'S positon and would you say SKR is in trouble?

Would SCHE ever start trading again? Still got 100k share here aswell.)-:

johncraven
30/7/2011
06:26
no signs from this that SX are trying to bid to LL's for any
mavverick
29/7/2011
12:07
I totally agree with you mavv and I am struggling to see how Court Cavendish can overcome this. I will be watching with interest.
lej2
29/7/2011
11:57
yes LEJ2... and the SC historical lack of infrastructure investment, not least in achieving quality, (while a fast buck was made), proved fatal with New Horizons arriving too late...still not all i's dotted and t's crossed.

The regulators (and less so commissioners) have hugely mistakenly and mechanically encouraged ('cost effective')large care homes and large providers (hiding behind the tram lines of bureaucratic inflexible rules to avoid the need for sound judgement)at the expense of small providers and small homely care homes where normalised daily living can be nurtured, that we know if well run offer a better product and a more personal experience. Prisons etc are large for a reason.

mavverick
29/7/2011
11:18
Grim reading indeed, but no great shock. The large rents paid to LL's have taken centre stage in the collapse of SC but I had always regarded this as borrowing dressed up in a different guise. LL's paid top dollar for SC properties and most were funded by loans. SC used the funds to grow at a phenomenel rate and this proved to be an unmanageable growth rate.

The biggest reason for the SC failure was the dramatic fall in occupancy rate, somewhat disguised by the reduction in beds available when 1300 odd shared rooms were made into single rooms. Actual beds occupied fell from over 34,000 in 2008 to 31,000 this year. 3,000 beds at £525 per week is £82 million per annum, probably £60 million of which would have reached the bottom line.

Four Seasons have already failed once, without paying rents, and my firm opinion now is that small is beautiful in this sector.

lej2
29/7/2011
10:22
More complications...

'Lenders to NHP, the largest landlord to collapsed care homes operator Southern Cross, could be forced to forego interest payments for up to four years to ensure homes do not close.

That is the estimate of analysts who monitor bonds secured against the 249 Southern Cross-operated homes owned by NHP. The figure shows the precarious financial position in which many of the landlords to Southern Cross find themselves, and the fraught negotiations with lenders that will need to be undertaken over the next three months to push through a restructuring of the company.

NHP said last week that it planned to change from being just a landlord to care home properties to an operator as well, as part of the consensual winding up of Southern Cross and transfer of its operations to other companies.

It will create a new operating company in conjunction with healthcare specialist Court Cavendish, which is run by ex-Priory chief executive Chai Patel.

To do this, the special servicer to the £1.1bn bonds secured against NHP's assets has said that it will allow income from the properties to be diverted to free up working capital so the new business can be set up.

But this means that some junior bondholders will be forced to go without interest payments for as much as four years, analysts at Chalkhill Securities estimate.

"While we believe that the restructuring strategy adopted by the borrower could enhance the recovery value of the notes, we believe that it will take up to four years for class B to E to start receiving interest payments from excess cash," says Chalkhill. "Assuming the same payments are made in the October 2011 interest payment date, we estimate that the total deferred payments could amount to around £21m, which are mainly owed to the swap provider."

The special servicer in this instance has the ability to impose changes without seeking the consent of the bondholders. However, ratings agency Fitch has already downgraded the bonds on the expectation that almost all classes of bondholders will face losses, a situation that could throw a spanner in the works of any prospective restructuring.'

mavverick
29/7/2011
09:57
Thanks for that mavv. I have just checked the CQC website to find out what 'non-routine conditions' are. They are, and I quote 'These conditions require the provider to make changes to ensure that essential standards are met'.

I am astounded that there are so many of the large providers homes subject to 'non-routine conditions' which appesr to be a step further than a more usual compliance condition.

lej2
28/7/2011
21:32
if sx are trying to woo LL's....an interesting stat

Figures released by the CQC under the Freedom of Information Act revealed the extent of CQC requirements placed on homes run by the major four providers. As of 5 July, Southern Cross had "non-routine conditions" placed on the registration of 24% of its homes; the same was true of 32% of Four Seasons Health Care homes and 26% of Bupa homes. The figure for Barchester Healthcare was 17%.

mavverick
27/7/2011
08:03
Mr Kilgour said: "In recent weeks it has become apparent that many landlords do not have the experience and track-record to provide the high quality of care that residents and their families expect and deserve.

"Word in the industry has obviously spread and we're receiving a steady stream of enquiries from other landlords looking for help in ensuring a smooth transition away from the difficulties experienced by Southern Cross and I expect we'll be making further announcements about additional Scottish homes in the near future,"

mavverick
27/7/2011
06:04
Mav....I really think there is some dodgy dealings going on behind the scene in which the shareholders have been badly shafted....I really do hope that the FSA start to look into what Mr Buchan has been up to during the past few months!!!!!!!
aspers
26/7/2011
20:31
'Robert Kilgour said he has been approached by three landlords of Southern Cross to run 11 homes in Scotland involving 500 beds and 800 staff. Mr Kilgour, who founded Four Seasons Health Care in Fife in 1989, owns and runs three care homes in Edinburgh and the Lothians under the Renaissance Care brand.'
mavverick
25/7/2011
11:25
Well, I live in hope of something emerging from the rubble but I'm not holding my breath.
boffster
24/7/2011
13:28
As far as business models go.

Yell has £2.7bn debt with annual revenues of £200m and profit of £24m.
I am pretty sure SCHE will end up with 200 homes and around £250m revenues.
HNP say they don't want SCHE assets,but may use their services infra structure which will attract revenues.
I'm pretty sure SCHE will have a part to play in future care homes.
I would not class this current situation as administration.
It's about getting fresh capital injected and fending off the vulture.
Who's to say NHP will survive for more than a year.
SCHE has far less debt than NHP,NHP are around 120% debt/equity ratio at current commercial property prices,which is in breach of their bank covenants,which are 85% debt/equity ratios.

So therefore a restructured lease back model,is a better business model than a commercial property equity swap business model, in a falling commercial property market.
Compared to NHP, a skinny SCHE would present itself as a far better model than an even more bloated,indebted property backed company with no health care infra-structure,experience.Which would you invest in.
And as for Mr patel who failed to sell CMG for £100m this years has only known growing markets,his prowess has yet to be tested in the NHP/current climate scenario.
Markets need to focus on the precarious balance sheet of NHP in relationship to care of the elderly before they kill off SCHE.

Still a lot to play for IMHO.

b1llyboy
24/7/2011
12:45
Well,in for a penny..........At least the coffin dodgers will get looked after.
b1llyboy
23/7/2011
15:48
EI, what is your opinion on the remaining homes which are not owned by large landlords? Referring to the news that SC investors were preparing to inject capital, do you think they may stay with a downsized, perhaps renamed SC?
boffster
22/7/2011
12:47
Hardly a single word of regret expressed by those long here
about the pernicious ramping that went on - and probably suckered
others in.

Heaven help you if we suspect your gloating having called it correctly,
but pernicious ramping ... well,.. we can let that one slide,
no need to concern ourselves with that, d'ont worry, did no harm...

HLO, SCHE and Nestor Healthcare, make 3 calls like that in the same
sector and get back to me.

Enough said, agree.

essentialinvestor
22/7/2011
11:36
For someone who worked in the industry for 15 years you do don't seem to have learned much about compassion or even human nature.
End of.

selkirk69
22/7/2011
09:16
thanks selkirk and LEJ2

Good advice...I'll leave it alone now

mavverick
22/7/2011
09:14
Worked in the Industry for 15 years and choose to share my views,
in detail, selkirk did not understand that either it appears imo.

Perhaps he pays more attention to broker research and their
wonderful insights.

You may want to look at some of the great broker research on HLO
over the last few years, which also ended up in suspension.
Called that down from about the very top through to it's eventual suspension.

Some of us understand the sector.

essentialinvestor
22/7/2011
09:06
EI

I have no problem with your posts from April 10 until pre suspension, where you were consistently warning that the company was overvalued when looking at future trends. In truth these posts did agree with a lot of my own beliefs. mavverick was also very cautious in terms of the future of SC and all of these views helped to balance the bulletin board.

The problem here is your gloating at others misfortunes. Institutions have lost a packet here and, as we all know, they don't lose their own money but the hard earned cash of their own investors, by means of pension funds, endowment policies or whatever.

The principal difference between yourself and mavverick is that he is a gentleman and you are a braggart.

lej2
22/7/2011
09:02
Lol finding this funny

Mav
You're better than this why get sucked in, let the egotist have his day.
If ei thinks anybody would act on his/her advice based on FA research then that just about sums them up.

Yes I lost but I'm not crying about it just move on, I've learned a lot and have had to pay for the lesson, what I do now know is the care industry for the 'middle' class is in deep, deep trouble and this is just the tip.

selkirk69
Chat Pages: 342  341  340  339  338  337  336  335  334  333  332  331  Older

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