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[emptyend] 05/11/2016 11:14

...sorry...he is a Knight not a Lord. The Lord who wrote in was offering to lead a revolution.

[emptyend] 05/11/2016 11:11

I would add, Peter, that I see and hear genuine rage on the streets.....not from anyone who is a UKIP member, but from people who are frothing at the mouth about the untrustworthiness of politicians, judges and the whole establishment. Read the Telegraph letters page today.....it is no coincidence that the one letter in support of the judges etc is from a Lord.

[kenobi] 05/11/2016 10:37

Hi Everyone, I think we all need to calm down, and maybe get back to SOCO, I have an opinion, but I dare not express it here, I think this is a great example of what was great about tmf boards, this would have been nipped in the bud. Posting something on subject here means it will be lost in wave after wave of off topic stuff. At least at tmf there would have been a brexit discussion board and someone to moderate.

I've met Peter as well as some of the rest of you, Peter and I have had differences of opinion about soco and other things, but he's a genuinely nice thoughtful guy, and his opinions are valid whether or not we agree with them. The culture of shaming people on the front pages of newspapers whether it be the judges, or the newspaper owners on the other side, is not good, it's confrontational, unpleasant and frankly beneath us. But anyway I'm interested in the payment from the chinese oil co and the fdp, it seems like we've been waiting for that for over 12 months now,. From what was said at the agm it will just be the number of wells to be drilled next year to within 2 wells so it's not anything radical as we envisaged when we first started discussing the fdp.

[freddythefish] 05/11/2016 09:43

Greyingsurfer:

Get a grip! .........(?)

First of all there's no need to be so patronising.

Second - and in reply to your counter-comments, how else would you describe the "un-named business interests" who financially supported Gina Miller's High Court application than as other than in the shadows? They certainly aren't putting themselves in the spotlight.

You also talk about the independence of the judiciary and the independence of Parliament. Part of the problem many people have is that we are no longer sure that these bodies are truly independent. Certainly in Parliament there is a host of recent evidence that some members are only too ready to act in their own self interest and the published links to EU institutions of some members of the judiciary (including those who sat in judgement this week) would have led to them recusing themselves in other societies.

I am watching with interest the progress of the Pirate Party in Iceland (with a democracy even older than ours). Their position is that representative democracy is no longer fit for the 21st century. When first introduced, most of the population were unable to read or write and so voting was arranged so that people better educated were elected to represent a community in Parliament.

Today we can all read and write, we are all educated (many of us continued our formal education well into our twenties) we have access to newspapers, the internet, discussion boards and all manner of analyses. We are equipped to take views and make decisions in a way that our forebears never were.

The result of the EU referendum was one such decision and it seems very clear that it is the established order that is unequipped to deal with it.

[joestalin] 05/11/2016 08:17

the myth from way back that leaving the EU was going to be quick easy and painless….."

It will be less painful for us as net contributors, but more painful for those countries who have developed a dependency culture on the back of our largesse. Which is, er, most of them.

Trade with them - yes, of course. Subsidise them? No - it harms both us and them in the long term.

[tournesol] 05/11/2016 07:42

Greyingsurfer

"….Cameron/Farage/May/Johnson and a host of others who have created the myth from way back that leaving the EU was going to be quick easy and painless….."

When exactly did Cameron say anything remotely close to that?

When did the leading exit campaigners say that?

When did anyone voting to Leave imagine that for a second?

You are erecting the flimsiest of strawmen.

Peter, your curmudgeonly refusal to accept the referendum is unworthy of you. I and other sceptics did not behave like this after the first referendum all those years ago. We accepted defeat and moved on. It's now time for Remainers to get behind the project. FIFO is the term we used to use at work when we were making a change that encountered stubborn/unreasonable opposition. It strikes me as appropriate for remainers now.

[yasrub] 05/11/2016 07:38

Thanks ee for the reply, that sounds promising. Whilst we have received the recent 2p divi - I would hope this gives some room for a further distribution in due course.

[buywell3] 04/11/2016 23:53

It is the price of OIL that matters

Those of you ramping here that believed a deal to cut production would be done stand to lose money

If Soco is in a position where it is owed monies still not paid for assets , then a continued price fall in OIL might well become a major problem

Depends upon things like 'get out clauses' and whether or not any buyer still has the cash to proceed , contract or no contract

OIL looks set to test $40 again soon , probably before this xmas

My take is that in 2017 it will again test $35 as certain producers are now running low on cash money

[emptyend] 04/11/2016 20:08

re YASRUB's on-topic point, I understand that the first payment will arrive in the next couple of weeks or so and that others will follow when due (presumably monthly). I'd guess that the first payment would be $30-odd mn with the balance paid (hopefully) in December.The quantum of the payment has never been in dispute and is a matter of contract (from 2005 IIRC) and I believe Daqing have acknowledged in writing that they are due.

[invisage] 04/11/2016 20:05

The vote is OUT get overyourself. No one cares about anything else.
#
Endless debates about nonsense.

[invisage] 04/11/2016 20:04

Brexit nonsense again

[emptyend] 04/11/2016 20:02

Peter, I don't think that you and many others living in relatively cozy circles realise the forces that are being stoked here. People on the streets are getting very seriously annoyed that what they voted for shows no sign of being delivered - and every sign that the establishment is closing ranks to delay and frustrate things.The judges point is a bit of a side issue, but the cold facts are that Cameron's government negligently made zero preparations and May's government has acted indecisively. People notice that nothing has actually happened - and they are getting bloody annoyed at the government and parliament letting them down and failing to even start the process to execute their instructions according to the clear mandate given by the Referendum.And then you have Clegg and other LibDems chucking fuel on the fire. Well it is November 5th this weekend.....and we are seeing the conditions develop where some modern Guy Fawkes will get exasperated enough to try something similar. The liberal left, the establishment and their chums in the Remainiac MSM will bear a heavy responsibility for the destruction which will follow if the establishment continue to flout the will of the people. That should not be interpreted as "threat" - it is simply an acknowledgement that we are heading very rapidly towards much more dangerous times.rgds

[nigelpm] 04/11/2016 15:57

I fully agree with Peter on this one as a leave voter.

Absolutely right that the terms of Brexit should go to Parliament BUT any MP voting against Art 50 should state publicly why they have chosen to go against the public vote.

Of course it will mean heels dragging on but it's right that due process should be followed.

[greyingsurfer] 04/11/2016 15:51

I perceive some powerful forces in the shadows

Ah these would be people like the "foreign born billionaires" interfering in UK politics that the Sun - owned by a foreign born billionaire - was complaining about this morning?

Get a grip! No need to look in the shadows - 48% of those who voted voted to stay, some of those who voted to leave are probably not ecstatic about May trying to avoid having to justify her particular path to Brexit to our democratic systems. Those who want this done properly are in the light, they are nearly half of the people you pass every day.

Peter

[freddythefish] 04/11/2016 15:32

I'm very much in agreement with Tournesol, however with regard to what Brexit means I think most are looking down the wrong end of the telescope.

My take on it is to imagine that we were never in the EU to start with (a thought experiment) and to see the Brexit negotiations as simply a trade negotiation (rather in the manner of the recent CETA agreement). Of course the negotiations should be far simpler than for the Canadians, simply because we already qualify for most of the rules and regulations regarding trade.

The matters of sovereignty, free movement, border control, the European Court never applied to the Canadians in return for massive tariff reductions - so why should they apply to us?

Of course there are details to be ironed out (such as the Common Travel Area with Ireland) - but I don't see such problems as insurmountable.

Incidentally, I'd love to know who is behind Ms Miller's action. She appears to me to be a willing front-person but I perceive some powerful forces in the shadows. I'd like to know who they are.

ftf - (digging around in the shed for my pitchfork).

[yasrub] 04/11/2016 15:21

I am interested on investor expectations on the timing/reality of receiving the full payment of $52.7m for the Mongolian asset. I note from the interims management expect payment by the end of the year, but is this realistic ? - is it more likely an instalment process ?

Furthermore it is unclear to me whether the calculation to arrive at $52.7m has actually been agreed by Daqing Oilfield Limited Company, a subsidiary of PetroChina Co. Ltd.

[joestalin] 04/11/2016 15:05

Can't get your way legally so move on to threats?

Sauce for the goose, Peter.

[greyingsurfer] 04/11/2016 14:59

Lists will be being drawn up - the names of those who are blatantly attempting to subvert the will of the people being identified.

Great - vigilante squads next? Can't get your way legally so move on to threats?

Peter

[greyingsurfer] 04/11/2016 14:57

the only issues that that leaves to be considered before A50 are our membership of the single market and acceptance of the 4 pillars. I would argue that those issues have been settled by the referendum.

I think you are completely wrong to argue that. Quite apart from the obvious points that the referendum question made no mention, or that no coherent vision of what Brexit meant was presented prior to the referendum, I have no doubt whatsoever that if the Brexit camp, and in particular Boris, had had the guts to state clearly prior to the referendum that achieving many of the Brexit camps goals would without doubt lead to ceasing to be members of the single market, and accepting the economic consequences, then there would not have been a majority for leave. Instead the "leader" of the Leave campaign waved his arms around and fudged at every turn and continually gave the impression that the UK could have it's cake and eat it.

We are exiting

let's celebrate that fact and make it a great success

Certainly nothing to celebrate there! But clearly we have to do all we can to make it work on the best terms possible - which is exactly why we can't leave it to a small clique of hard eurposceptics and selfpromoters to set the pattern of the negotiations - and that the normal processes of British democracy, which haven't worked badly for the past several centuries, must be allowed to work as intended.

Peter

[tournesol] 04/11/2016 13:06

Peter

When article 50 is actioned there will be a great reform bill or whatever it is called which will lock EU equivalent rules into British Law - so no immediate change at all in the rights and responsibilities of UK citizens.

thereafter we can scrutinise the detailed regulations/laws at leisure and subject each of them to our normal parliamentary process so they are kept or modified as parliament wishes.

the only issues that that leaves to be considered before A50 are our membership of the single market and acceptance of the 4 pillars. I would argue that those issues have been settled by the referendum. A Brexit which left us subjected to the 4 pillar constraints and left us as a paying guest member of the SM would not be a brexit in any meaningful way..

So called soft brexit is just remain dressed in different clothes.

We are exiting

let's celebrate that fact and make it a great success