Safestyle Uk Share Discussion Threads

[gucci] 03/3/2015 10:50

range trading
heading back to 180p

[discodave4] 20/2/2015 09:09

ROCE ye 2013 was 64%.DD

[gargleblaster] 20/2/2015 03:23

buffeteer - I didn't only mention the PEG. I also mentioned the PER, dividend, margins and cashflow. The ROCE reading for SFE of 687 is off the charts and frankly for that reason I am a little sceptical of its meaning.

Your mention of the £9 billion seems a bit obscure, but I do think that investors are fairly scared of the stock-market and that is generally a good thing for those already invested, if sentiment changes. Good luck to all in SFE.

[discodave4] 19/2/2015 17:47

£9 Billion!... It only IPO'd at £77m. Believe the Style Group Holdings shareholders had a £9m divi in 2013 before listing.GLDD

[buffetteer] 19/2/2015 12:27

Tje £9bn is the amount the private investors withdrew from equities back end of 2014- check out investors chronicle think hats where I read it

[tintin82] 19/2/2015 10:16

Firstly, 7.7% growth is hardly something to dismiss. Secondly, if a company had a quarter that growth, and a ROCE such as SFE, whats the problem? Whilst they are not growing the business at stellar rates, the cash pile certainly will! Dividends / buybacks etc...

[discodave4] 19/2/2015 08:10

"Once the £9 billion withdrawn by private investors from sept- nov last year starts to flow back in I'm sure we will see a re- rating."Can you explain please - £9 billion withdrawn?, don't understand. Thanks.GLDD

[buffetteer] 19/2/2015 08:02

Gargle
If you are only using Peg to value a business then you will be sorely disappointed. It is only one measure. What about the most portent measure of all - Roce - which SFE happen to score very highly Indeed. The fact is that with such a high return the company is in the envious position of either bumping up its comfortable growth rate and/or takeover or repay capital. Once the £9 billion withdrawn by private investors from sept- nov last year starts to flow back in I'm sure we will see a re- rating . Often the best investments take time to come good .lastly do you not think the growth rate will be aided by much higher anticipated consumer spending and wage growth for the first time for many years - I do .

[gargleblaster] 19/2/2015 00:34

Just had a quick look at Safestyle again, and my impression is that whilst it is apparently cheap (forward PE of 9.4), there is a good reason for that - in that it is currently a low growth business - projected growth 7.7%. The forward PEG is 1.21, which whilst reasonable is not cheap - cheap on the Slater measure is a PEG below 1. There are many pluses, like the high divi, margins seem to be improving (from 7.34 in 2011 to 8.62 in 2012 to 9.2% in 2013), cash flow is okay (higher than norm eps in 3 of the last 4 years) and revenues have steadily increased in the last four years.

So the issue for me is the question mark relating to growth. If you know that "growth" is going to improve/have plausible reasons for why it will improve, this could be a good investment.

[firtashia] 17/2/2015 22:27

"The true investor ......would be better off if his stocks had no market quotation at all, for he would then be spared the mental anguish caused him by other persons' mistakes in judgement" - Ben Graham

[tintin82] 17/2/2015 13:22

These boards are very useful for the sharing of information and understanding of particular things. However one of the more dangerous aspects of that is the 'support' that they provide. When a share price is tanking due to a deterioration in fundamentals, the 'support' of others can lead to your own inaction. Basically we all feel better if others agree with us and our position, even if we have doubt ourselves. Not a problem with SFE as the fundamentals speak for themselves. But as the above, DYOR.

[buffetteer] 17/2/2015 13:10

Thats why these boards are v .useful.They make bbs feel they are not alone and give support when the price suggests otherwise.
Keep the faith-the numbers tell you to.

[tintin82] 17/2/2015 13:04

Patience - the one virtue that all proven successful value investors have in common. In the information age were share prices and information are updated non stop straight to our desktops and phones, it is more important than ever to exercise patience.

[gohil18] 17/2/2015 12:42

Yes, when a re-rating comes it can often be out the blue and propel the share price quite a lot pretty sharpish. Here's hoping both SFE and Entu do very well for shareholders!

[buffetteer] 17/2/2015 09:31

Gohil
I have been reading the recent exchanges which I do agreed with . Your point about good companies remaining cheap for a very long time is also interesting. My experience of. Buying undervalued high quality small companies is that now is a vey good time to get into things like SFE because they are unloved . They will not remain so cheap for ever because as they grow they gain interest , respect from track record , respect for delivery etc . Eventually they get re-rated and that can be a very strong jump. If they do t then they will be likely taken over by someone who sees the same thing . It's the law of the jungle !

[tintin82] 17/2/2015 08:21

Great post Gohil. Great to hear from another perspective. Still not won over regarding the divi, but heyho each to their own. GL all

[gohil18] 16/2/2015 19:02

Thanks TinTin82. Just a couple of points re Entu.

They have grown their cash pile significantly which is a big positive, especially as the trend is likely to continue. I'm quite happy to receive the 8% dividend and I believe that's one of main attractions hence why the share price is rising. Re Flow, surely it is a no brainer? They're are in the homes of prospective purchasers selling to them anyway so if they decide to also to take a boiler, Entu get a kickback. If they don't sell the boiler, they've not lost anything. So its a win win from my point of view.

The fact Entu are buying up other companies is also a positive imo because they are minimising their competition and have the people and economies of scale to grow rapidly, hence are an exciting prospect. The management seem no less committed or experienced than SFE. It might me worthwhile watching this recent interview with the CEO following their results in this respect:

I also believe they offer a much more diverse range of products/services than SFE which also makes them a less risky prospect should the double glazing market experience tough times for whatever reason.

I like SFE is lot. But Mr Market seems less enthusiastic and I've learnt theirs no point arguing as good companies that are cheap can stay that way for a very long time and can get even cheaper! That's the reason I've put my money in Entu instead.

Good luck regardless!

[tintin82] 15/2/2015 10:40

I decided to have a good look through Entu and try as always to conduct a non-bias comparison with SFE (not easy as I hold SFE).

They both at face value are very good companies trading at what I believe to be a discount to value. However there are some striking differences that makes me keep the faith with SFE. These including that SFE has near double the cash pile, net assets of £23.79m, vs Entu net assets of £0.92m, and proven decades old business model run by a team consistently delivering. There are more points (such as MOU with Flow which I see as a risky venture) but these are the main ones.

This is not to say that I would not invest in Entu, in fact if I had the funds and was willing to take on a bit more exposure to the sector I may in fact seriously consider taking a position.

One of the main positives touted by Entu holders is the dividend. To me this dividend is actually a negative in my eyes. Entu are operating in a very fragmented market and in my opinion need to take over competition to grow and establish a solid foothold. Growing the cash pile and expanding should be the priority, not dividends.

To summarise my view. Entu - undervalued, investible with a few reservations. SFE - more undervalued with less reservations.

Good luck all holders, it’s a great sector IMO.

[gswredland] 11/2/2015 09:35

Agree tin tin

[discodave4] 10/2/2015 19:22

Looked at Entu as well and went with SFE as the better option. Don't think Flow has a sound business model and see no added value for Entu.Good LuckDD

[imranawan] 10/2/2015 12:34

Am a holder in Safestyle and agree that the share price hasn't moved as much as I would have liked, but am happy to wait and collect the dividends. I've looked at Entu, and agree they are a growing company, but the directors shenanigans prior to the IPO put me off.

[tintin82] 10/2/2015 12:04

'being bored and bailing out' Its UVPC windows and doors, it's supposed to be boring! If you don't like boring why not take a look at QPP. Personally boring companies that consistently deliver is exactly what I look for.

[neilgbudd] 10/2/2015 10:01

I sold out of Safestyle last year because despite the fundamentals, the share price had lost it's mojo and the share price was declining. I have bought into Entu because I still like the sector, and imo they are a better play. Big dividend (8.5% inc special dividend announced in the excellent results today), £6m growing cash pile and more diversified business with repair and maintenance, boiler installation (new agreement with Flow announced today too), and still on a PBT to MCAP of only around 8 x. Crucially, the share price is in an up trend so I'd rather have a nice dividend AND capital growth, rather than hold Safestyle and just benefit from the dividend whilst my capital stays static at best or erodes at worse. Plus, Entu seem to have a nice positive news flow, whereas we really don't hear much from Safestyle which is probably not helping as investors become bored and bail out. Especially after the large director sale. DYOR of course, just my humble opinion. Good luck.

[discodave4] 09/2/2015 20:42

ENTU results tomorrow, could be interesting.GLDD

[discodave4] 07/2/2015 01:52

Edison - In-Line Update for Year End 2014:hTTp://www.edisoninvestmentresearch.com/serve_pdf.php?d=researchreports&f=SafestyleUpdate040215.pdf&first_name=Sir/Madam&last_name=Sir/Madam&company=Private&email=[e-mail] - Spot on, 240p to c 260p 2015.GLDD