Royal Bank Of Scotland Share Discussion Threads

[chinese investor] 01/4/2018 09:46

Signature said 1,600 claimants have been awarded an initial payment.
As £25 million has been released it would suggest the larger claimants have been successful.

[chinese investor] 01/4/2018 09:41

"The first payouts have been made to some of the thousands of investors who won a total of £200 million from Royal Bank of Scotland last summer.

Around £25 million of the settlement......was given out last week"

[barmiddleton] 30/3/2018 18:45

Interesting posts as usual, CI, always glad to hear from you!

[chinese investor] 30/3/2018 14:37

So who are Hunnewell Partners (British Virgin Islands) ?

24 May 2017

Hildyard J ordered that one of the funders, Hunnewell Partners (BVI) Ltd, pay £7.5m in security, but made no order against the other, a Manx company called London and Northern Capital Partners (LNCP), in part because, unlike Hunnewell, it was not a commercial litigation funder.

LNCP is owned by “businessman and philanthropist”; Trevor Hemmings.

The judge said: “I do not think the evidence presently suggests that LNCP has identified and supported the litigation as a business opportunity; it has extracted a price, but it has sought to assist the parties it has funded to vindicate their rights for their own benefit in the apparent belief that without such assistance a deserving cause would founder.

“Its support is not, as it were, a self-interested and separate commercial adventure in which the litigation is a vehicle not so much for vindication as speculative profit.”

[chinese investor] 30/3/2018 14:20

The "Action Group" at the moment have enough cash to pay for a small cup of coffee.
They never had 30,000 plus legitimate claimants.
They had around 7,000 who had paid their subs.
There were probably a few thousand more who were legitimate and who didn't pay.
There were many more "chancers" which explains the phantom shares.
This is why the "subs" evaporated when the "Action Group" paid off Bird & Bird.
It also explains why they didn't pay Signature.

[chinese investor] 30/3/2018 14:18

m & bar,
I have just returned from shopping and while I was there I was thinking about what I was going to write.
I'm delighted at your posts as they are on the lines of my thinking which is :-

If the court decides Vannin Capital must pursue the "Action Group (Limited)" (and not us) then :-
(they will get little return)
(we can forget about them)

If not we have a good case for not paying Vannin Capital (more later).

[m1k3y1] 30/3/2018 14:11

Great to hear it BAR , congratulations.
Agree with your views in the rest of your post by the way.
I continue to ask for an official investigation, the sooner the better.
Happy Easter.

[barmiddleton] 30/3/2018 13:46

Great news from my camp, guys. Just received my cheque in this mornings post (I live in Scotland and Good Friday is not an national holiday so we got a post today!) Got the full amount I was expecting so off to the Bank on Tuesday. Did not receive an email though like you m1.

With regard to your last post m1, it really does not matter whether the RBS SAG decides to cease trading as the company clearly has no assets whatsoever. My guess is all our "contributions" are long gone so nobody will get anywhere suing the company as it is a Limited one. And any monies from the settlement that do go to them (very unlikely now imho!) would be protected as those funds would be to pass on to entitled parties like ourselves and thus "protected" The SAG is now a busted flush and we can only hope the rogues behind it are prosecuted accordingly. Of course the disputed monies being requested by Evalusafety is a different kettle of fish but these funds will never be paid direct to the SAG if ever.

[m1k3y1] 30/3/2018 12:32

There will come a point , I suspect, when the RBOS Shareholders Action Group Ltd might decide it could be better to cease trading.
Should they ever receive payments from the settlement, it wouldn't make any sense for them to continue.
In the event they did 'close' the company, I wonder then where this would leave companies like vannin !

[chinese investor] 30/3/2018 12:23

See 3 :-

Chinese Investor (RBS) 27 Oct '17 - 12:10
This is what I would like :-

1) Manx and Signature to organise the Settlement exclusively (TICK)
2) "The Action Group" to do no more work and be paid for their time, travel and office expenditure (£1 million at most)
3) The early Funders to receive no money - if they're not happy with that then they can sue the "Action Group" (COURT)
4) The Corporate Claimants to give us the money they owe us (ON GOING)
5) Total Costs to be Signature (£20 million), Bird & Bird (£6 million) and the "Action Group" (£1 million)

[m1k3y1] 30/3/2018 12:17

Of course, Vannin can reject what they like but ultimately it will be for the courts to decide, IF it ever gets to court that is.

[m1k3y1] 30/3/2018 12:16

CI , I note the article appears to suggest that it might look to recover that sum from
the RBOS Shareholders Action Group Ltd.
Of course, this is separate to the claimants themselves.
It may well cause the RBOS Shareholders Action Group Ltd a problem if Vannin go after them ?

[chinese investor] 30/3/2018 12:15

m,
No - anyone can get a trial week free offer and then they can see the full article.
I had my free go at the beginning of the year.

[m1k3y1] 30/3/2018 12:11

Lawsuit funder Vannin Capital seeks public backing
hxxps://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lawsuit-funder-vannin-capital-seeks-public-backing-9xrbn97sx

[m1k3y1] 30/3/2018 12:10

Interesting CI, thank you.
Have you got the rest of the article please.

[chinese investor] 30/3/2018 12:10

Vannin Capital are after £15 million - that's a huge chunk of our money !

[chinese investor] 30/3/2018 11:59

LAW360 !

"Vannin Capital has rejected the argument that it can't use its litigation funding agreements to claim to a slice of the £200 million won by Royal Bank of Scotland PLC shareholders in a settlement over the bank's 2008 rights issue, denying that its agreements amounted to unenforceable insurance contracts.

Vannin says either RBOS Shareholders Action Group Ltd. or an alternative list of claimants benefiting from the 2017 deal — which RBS struck with the action group to avert a trial over allegations that it........."

[polar fox] 30/3/2018 07:28

Forbes has some more interesting analysis from Trefis in Boston:

Selling RBS Stake Could Cost U.K. Government Over £11 Billion


U.K. Financial Investments Limited, which was set up by the U.K. government in 2008 to oversee the bailout investment in the Royal Bank of Scotland Group and the Lloyds Group, recently reaffirmed its plan to sell £3 billion worth of RBS shares by the end of March 2019. This announcement makes it increasingly likely that the U.K. government will go through with its larger plan of selling a chunk of its stake in RBS worth £3 billion in each of the next five years. This is good news for the British banking giant, which has been struggling to return to the private sector since its £45.5 billion bailout in late 2008.


But how long will it take for the UKFI to work its way through all its stake in RBS? And is there any hope of the British government recovering all of the initial taxpayer money? We created a detailed, interactive dashboard for RBS in an attempt to answer these questions using forecasts for just two primary input parameters – the expected annual stake sale value and expected growth in RBS’s share price. Based on the dashboard, we believe that the stake sale will be completed in 2023, with the net loss incurred by British taxpayers being around £11.3 billion (almost 25% of the initial investment, ignoring the impact of inflation).

Notably, this is in sharp contrast to the UKFI’s sale of its stake in Lloyds, which was completed successfully last year at a nominal profit. But it must be noted here that the Lloyds bailout was much smaller (£20.3 billion), and also that Lloyds’ shares recovered to well above the bailout figure of 73.6 pence a share over 2014-15. On the other hand, RBS’s shares have traded largely around 250-350 pence over recent years – well below the bailout figure of a little over 500 pence.

RBS Has Come A Long Way, But Can’t Match The Profits Of Its Former Self

RBS has faced a long list of setbacks on its path to re-privatization over the last decade. The bank reported an annual loss for each year over the nine-year period from 2008-16, even as it worked on reorganizing its once-diversified business model towards retail and commercial banking services in the U.K. and clearing its huge backlog of legacy legal issues. The bank reported its first annual profit in 2017, but with the U.S. mortgage-related lawsuit yet to be settled, it is staring at another potentially huge loss for the current year. But there is no denying the fact that aside from the impending multi-billion dollar settlement with the U.S. Department of Justice (DoJ), things are looking up for the smaller, more efficient RBS.


That said, RBS’s current size and business model cannot generate returns at the levels needed to justify a valuation anywhere near its bailout level. This is very likely what triggered the British government’s decision to begin selling its stake at a sizable rate over the next five years.

So How Will The Stake Scale Pan Out?

Due to a sharp decline in RBS’s share price since the bailout, the UKFI has sold RBS shares on just one occasion in the past – when it sold £2 billion worth of shares in 2015. But the U.K. government intends to sell £3 billion worth of its stake in RBS in the fiscal year 2018, and to also dispose of £3 billion worth of shares each year over 2019-22. Given this plan, it seems likely that it will continue to reduce its stake in RBS by £3 billion each year beyond 2023 too.

With the actual number of shares sold by UKFI depending on the average price of RBS’s shares in a year, we also forecast the change in RBS’s share price over coming years. As shown in the chart below, RBS’s share price has largely increased by ~5% annually over recent years after tanking from over £5 in late 2009 to just £2.23 at the end of 2014. Accordingly, an annual growth rate of 5% over coming years looks appropriate for our analysis.


Based on the two assumptions as detailed above, we estimate that the U.K. government’s stake in RBS will decline from around 71.2% now to below 20% by the end of 2023, before eventually falling to zero by 2026. Finally, this leads us to our projections for the U.K. government’s effective loss over coming years. It includes the realized losses from actual stake sales, and any unrealized losses at the end of a year for the remaining holdings. Note that our calculations include the £5.6 billion in payments and special dividend received by the government from RBS.

unquote

It's going to be a long day's night!

[gcom2] 29/3/2018 18:32

shame it only rallied 2p

[m1k3y1] 29/3/2018 17:27

Thanks CI
Bring on an Official Investigation a.s.a.p.

[chinese investor] 29/3/2018 17:15

"An aspect of RBS that has concerned investors is the delay in paying out the legal settlement that was agreed over the Rights Issue.

This has received a lot of media coverage but the problems faced by the legal firm now handling the settlement, Signature Litigation, should not be underestimated.
It appears that they face two problems:
1) confirming the eligible claimants and their shareholdings;
2) confirming the contracts with “litigation funders” who helped to finance the legal action and their entitlements.

You might think that confirming the shareholders would be easy but it is not.
A very substantial number of the claimants will have held shares in nominee accounts (i.e. the shares they subscribed for were not put on their names on the share register of the company).
They are quite likely to have subsequently sold the shares due to the collapse in the share price.
After 10 years the nominee operator may not be able to confirm their past holding, and if they ever received a contract note or other written confirmation of their holding they may not have printed it out or retained a copy in digital form.
Many claimants may have died in the meantime or become senile, or moved house or changed their email address so that would create other problems.

There are two morals to this story:
1) Make sure you always keep accurate records of share transactions, including any contract notes or confirmation of subscriptions;
2) do push for reform of the share registration system so that everyone is on the share register and there is no doubt about who owns what and when the shares were acquired.

As regards the contracts with litigation funders, it is entirely appropriate that Signature Litigation seek to confirm the details of those contracts and that they were appropriate, i.e. that real services or funding was provided and the commission due was fair and reasonable.
The fact that these arrangements seem to be difficult to confirm, or at least are taking time, certainly raises some doubts that the campaign and legal action was competently managed all through its duration."

[m1k3y1] 29/3/2018 16:52

Happy Easter to you also BAR

[barmiddleton] 29/3/2018 16:24

Thanks m, some optimism at last!!! Happy easter.

[smurfy2001] 29/3/2018 15:38

Can't be long for RBS now then