Proventec Share Discussion Threads

[katylied] 16/11/2005 09:04

lol! Clearly some prefer the ostrich
posture. Only time will tell...

[hedgehunter] 16/11/2005 02:16

They have bought 2 businesses for 30 milion , full stop.

Why all the song and dance over intangibles.

If the company is a success this value plus a lot more will be realised.

Stop being stone age like in your research.

[fse] 15/11/2005 23:59

>katy.... well someone likes them. Not a chartist but know enough to say it looks pretty saucy.
I am peeved about the whole FLT business as thats the story I bought into.
Figures are hard to read but I cant help but feel this is not necessarily a dead duck.
I doubt Ultramotor will go anywhere now as its all taken too long and there is competition.
Coatings companies look solid though and I would not be in a rush to trash the cleaning company .......
Unsure but holding ;-)

[jimcar] 15/11/2005 15:26

just been to the site. As you say not much information. In the products section under e-cars they have a picture of what looks like a smart car. Could they work on this without mercedes permission?

[jonwig] 15/11/2005 14:10

Rapier, the very last thing in the results: I must admit I hadn't got that far - or even near!

The UM website seems to have been given a quite swish makeover:



...but it's not at all easy to find news of developments. Keronite, for instance, is marketing its image and product quite skilfully.

Ultra was always the most frustrating thing about FLT: would be ironic if this was the reason!

[rapier686] 15/11/2005 13:51

Re Ultra, see note 10.

It may not be operational news but their recent placing has raised the valuation of PROV's stake to £3m from £1m in the finals.

Quite significant!

PS - should also add that Firestop has taken quite a step backwards.
Total valuation down by £1m despite (it would appear) Prov holding extra £300k of loan notes.

[shavian] 15/11/2005 13:09

And there it goes! Can anyone see what the unknown trade at £1.35M was mid-morning - presumably another buy judging by the share price We may soon get an RNS on notifyable holdings to show who's buying.

PS I'm disappointed by the absence of news on Ultra

[jaygino] 15/11/2005 11:42

Looks like something is brewing here with all the large trades this morning. Was unable to buy 10K shares just now, but would have been able to sell 50K no problem ar 9.75p. Looks like another tick up shortly !!

[jimcar] 15/11/2005 10:37

I would think that the intangibles relate to licences, patents and trademarks. It could include patents on the steam cleaning technology and the Deepclean brand. Whether they are worth £26m though is open to debate (to put it kindly).

[jonwig] 15/11/2005 10:22

KL,
Whilst the balance sheet in the interims says (£'000):

Intangible fixed assets acquired ... 26,132
Goodwill arising on acquisition ..... 4,419

the acquisition document (page 91, 'adjustments') says:

The creation of goodwill of £28,553,000 arising on the acquisition of Osprey DeepClean and IMH at a total consideration of £30,986,000 satisfied by the issue of 146,330,999 shares of 5 pence each at a premium of 9 pence each and the issue of loan notes ...

There's quite a bit in the document about treatment of goodwill under Netherlands law.
As far as I'm concerned, the £26.132m is equivalent to goodwill.

[katylied] 15/11/2005 09:15

I guess nobody else can see
any value consistent with
~£30m either...

[hedgehunter] 15/11/2005 03:01

Here Katy.


Analysis of the acquisitions is as follows
£'000
Tangible fixed assets 53
Stock 533
Trade debtors 510
Other debtors 1,013
Cash 240
Trade creditors (1,720)
Other creditors (164)
Finance lease obligations (30) _____________
435

Intangible fixed assets acquired 26,132
Goodwill arising on acquisition 4,419

[katylied] 15/11/2005 00:57

So where is the value
that cost ~£30m?...

[wowy] 14/11/2005 22:45

Note 9 states as follows,

9. PURCHASE OF SUBSIDIARIES

On 24 August 2005, Proventec plc acquired 100% of InnoCleaning Magma
Holdings B.V and 100% of OspreyDeepClean Limited for a combined
consideration of £30,986,000. Goodwill arising on the acquisitions
amounted to £4,419,000

Analysis of the acquisitions is as follows
£'000
Tangible fixed assets 53
Stock 533
Trade debtors 510
Other debtors 1,013
Cash 240
Trade creditors (1,720)
Other creditors (164)
Finance lease obligations (30) _____________
435



Intangible fixed assets acquired 26,132
Goodwill arising on acquisition 4,419
_____________
Intangible fixed assets 30,551
_____________
Total consideration 30,986
_____________
Consideration split by:

Loan notes 10,500
Shares issued 20,486
_____________ 30,986


Is there any other way they could have accounted this item ?

[katylied] 14/11/2005 19:13

Well I am still wondering what the ~£30m of intangibles
truely represents, since only ~£4.4m has been allocated
to goodwill. Where did the other £25.6m come from?...

Or to put it another way, is the £25.6m
worth anything in real money?...

[jimcar] 14/11/2005 17:58

Just a thoughts on the figures

If we assume the change in operating profit from 2004 to 2005 is largely due to the impact of Innocleaning then this gives a £.435m that the new businesses have generated in what amounts to 1 quarter of trading (1st July to 30 Sept). This would amount to £1.74 m of operating profit per year or PBT of about £1.32m after interest. As the takeover document says that Innocleaning was making a loss for the first 6 months of 2005 then profits do seem to be expanding rapidly and the yearly estimates could therefore be substantially more. A value for them of £13 to £20m starts to look realistic.

The figures for the new proventec could look decent if the old FLT overheads could be reduced from the current £.9m per year or if Biocote are now making more meaningful profits.

Excluding Biocote and firestop the investments are valued at £8.7m and there should be some upside here. Keronite is held at £.6m and I seem to remember talk of a £40m total value from somewhere which could mean about £5m for PROV.
HDD should have some upside to come. The big unknown is Ultra.

So all in all it doesn't seem to disastrous but I think the old FLT looked a beter bet. Any comments?

[jonwig] 14/11/2005 09:58

Haven't looked closely at results yet: headline profits didn't look capable of propelling the share price anywhere.
Notice Keronite floatation confirmed for early 2006.
They say HDD share price has made steady progress - a bit too steady!

Biocote incorporated in this:

Biosafety cabinet completes NSF testing
Esco is now one of only 11 biosafety cabinet manufacturers in the world to be certified to the stringent NSF49 standard, and one of few to have products certified to both NSF49 and EN12469 standards.



But of course Biocote is 'core' and would probably be retained.

[katylied] 14/11/2005 08:19

Interims results out. Anyone impressed? Seems to me,
the old Flintstone rump still has value and potential,
but I cannot see how the terms of the reverse
takeover can be justified. Note that ~£30m
of assets = acquisition intangibles...

[shavian] 10/11/2005 08:54

HDD results due on 13 Dec

[manonthespot2] 08/11/2005 10:57

I still have Flintstone certs - and have heard nothing from the co since the change to Proventec - does anyone know if the old flt certs are still tradeable?

[knowing] 08/11/2005 10:48

London - TPA also to watch

[londonmetro] 07/11/2005 20:22

Serious buying now - this all bodes well in my opinion for the upcoming days


Bruce Wayne AKA BATMAN

[quemaster] 07/11/2005 17:26

Nice couple of buys reported at the end of day,

350k split into two trades @ 10p and 10.25

[londonmetro] 04/11/2005 09:40

OK - will do.

check out BSP though - just had a call back about it.

Read the bb.

[2004jj] 04/11/2005 08:21

london have a look at CDN its got golden cross potential imo