Proventec Share Discussion Threads

[shavian] 31/10/2005 18:56

And what about Ultra Motor?

[orange1] 31/10/2005 17:19

Jimcar

After the sale of their cleaning companies, I remember reading quotes from Innoconcepts in which they patted themselves on the back saying how the sale price had exceeded their expectations. Found it quite disturbing at the time from a FLT perspective. Somehow I can't find the quotes anymore.

What I have found now however are rumblings of discontent among the Inno shareholders about how little of Proventec Inno have ended up with given that the vast bulk of Prov's revenue comes from Osprey. Mutterings about not enough info having been given to them when they were asked to approve the deal. Mutterings too about the fact that the biggest shareholder of Magma (taken over by Flintstone at the same time as Inno) is also a commissioner at Inno. Suggestions that Magma was acquired at too high a price to the detriment of Inno shareholders and that the chap in question had a conflict of interest.

[jonwig] 31/10/2005 17:01

Jimcar.

That's true - legacy assets are ~7p/sh (I calculated them in an earlier post).
The old FLT was owed ~£0.73m by the investee companies at 31 March.
Just how much profit Biocote and Keronite will contribute is anyone's guess.

The £2.7m pbt for the cleaning cos was reached by taking the highest full year figure and rounding it up. But they do say these cos made a loss in the 6 months to June. So that could be hopelessly optimistic - we just don't know.

But look at the spike in FLT's share price March-April this year ahead of the HDD float, about 7p-14p. If you go back to the FLT thread at the time, the hype was incredible: 20p minimum, 50p even!
Post-event, the shares walked back down to 9p or so.

So, a history of disappointment here. And getting the NHS to actually buy stuff ...

[jimcar] 31/10/2005 16:42

jonwig

you are assuming that all the market value of the PROV is based on the earnings of the cleaning businesses and that none of it relates to assets like HDD, Keronite etc which I hope you would agree do have value (£5- 10m?). Also Biocote is supposed to be profitable now so they may be contributing to earnings.

I was trying to research the cleaning businesses over the weekend. Did not come up with a lot, mainly in online mags about cleaners which get excited about new paper covers for toilet seats etc. However OspreyDeep clean products do have 50 distributors and their products do seem to be cutting edge in their field and hospitals are buying them. Nothing definite but I felt a bit less gloomy after the falls of last week and felt that their might be some synergies with the Biocote stuff.

The thing that bothered me was when i searched on the Dutch stuff. Mostly got articles in double dutch as far as i am concerned but I hadn't realised that Innoconcepts work was very similar to FLT's in developing businesses and selling them on. it made me worry that FLTs managers may have paid generously for the cleaners in exchange for some kickbacks elsewhere in innoconcepts empire (directorships etc). Hope I'm wrong on this but I still can't see why they paid so much

[ndoody] 31/10/2005 16:34

Well it's my birthday tommorrow, perhaps proventec know this too?

[jonwig] 31/10/2005 16:09

Orange: I was just about to reach for my charting book: "icicle" formation - hum.

Paul,

re the formal documents.
233.4m shares in issue*.
Cleaning cos could make (pretty generously) £2.7m profit before tax by end-Dec (they made a loss in 6 mths to end-June). See doc p11.
Subtract £1.2m for loan note financing (see my post #78) and apply 30% tax charge gives earnings of £1.1m say.
ie. P/E of ~19x at 9p.

That looks pretty steep to me!
Now FLT (as was) was always a pretty leaky company: the HDD float was signalled well in advance.
Keronite may well be near to float, and is an ambitious and very interesting outfit. But they own only 13% of that. Who knows?
the reason for my interest in FLT/PROV is in the possibilities for these 'legacy' companies, but the cleaning outfits will need to surprise enormously.

*Placing of more shares @14p since then: disregarded in the calculation.

[2004jj] 31/10/2005 16:05

Paul very excited here sorry - i will go lie down and chill

[2004jj] 31/10/2005 16:03

Paul look for news on 2 fronts a double whammy - HDD and hygiene toooooooooo.............. IMHO

[paulypilot] 31/10/2005 16:00

Hi,

2004jj - you should be careful starting unsubstantiated rumours like that. It's actually illegal & doesn't go down well with investors anyway, as you just look like a ramper.

Paul.

[2004jj] 31/10/2005 16:00

Interims 24th November so news then if not before ! it looks like its leaking out so they could b forced into releasing the news any time.

[2004jj] 31/10/2005 15:56

MM buy of 300K then MM buy of 200K so get in quick before the big jump up on the news.

[2004jj] 31/10/2005 15:53

Paul you are right, its been missed what they have been doing and how big it is. Will soon be back on the radar of everyone when its all announced, no confirmed news just that big things are happening !!!!!!!

[orange1] 31/10/2005 15:41

The long term chart shows the well known icicle formation - a bullish signal if ever there was one.

[2004jj] 31/10/2005 15:27

Big deals to be announced at interims if not before. Get in quick. MM buys show the news is leaking !

[paulypilot] 31/10/2005 14:52

Hi NDoody,

I've been hunting around, but not found anything to explain the sharp rise in price today. It's very welcome though isn't it ? I've held just over 400k of these shares since before the beginning of time (or it feels like that anyway), and had more or less written them off really.
So very pleasing to see them spark into life again today. I did speak with the house broker a little while ago, who said that the market had perhaps not grasped the nature of the acquisitions, since the formal documents put out are very dry & factual, and don't really give a flavour for what the potential may be.

Time will tell anyway. Sorry I don't have anything meaningful to add, just waffling really !!

Regards, Paul.

[ndoody] 31/10/2005 13:40

Is there a reason behind the share price going up today?

[spectrum7] 29/10/2005 21:56

Bloody hell Pomp......nice chart mate :-(

[katylied] 29/10/2005 21:05

Not hugely different from the article doing the rounds last march.
However... The company now is looking to close an additional
$4-million Series B fundraising in the coming months...

Further cash demand on PROV?...

[fse] 29/10/2005 15:26

>katy.... Good point about the Honda 50cc. Cant remember the date now but it was in the early 60's I think when the Honda was introduced into the UK.
I rode one from Guildford to Liverpool and was featured in one of their publicity posters.
I shook for hours afterwards but the bike was fine. After a good rest I took it back to Guildford which was less stressful as I became used to the bike.
An incredible invention and totally reliable... and quiet!

The electric bike like the concept above is woefully overdue now that we have sorted out the battrey storage capacity plus lighter materials ...

[nikesh] 29/10/2005 11:59

are there any details about the profit/loss figures of the company flt bought
i want to try and calculate net assets disregarding intangible assets

[katylied] 29/10/2005 11:02

Tokyo Show - Yamaha concept motorcycles. The 'Deinonychus' (below) puts an electric motor at the hub of both wheels, offering two wheel drive and giving the designers the freedom to do whatever they like in the space between. The batteries are positioned under the seat (like exhaust cylinders)...

Food for thought. The Honda 50cc Cub/Super-Cub went on to sell ~50million units worldwide and remains the world's biggest selling motorcycle. I wonder if similar success is waiting for whoever gets the low-end electric motorcycle right?...

[jonwig] 28/10/2005 11:55

Right at the end of the acquisition prospectus are the terms of the Loan Notes:

£10.5m, interest rate 8.5%, principal repayable at £750,000 per halfyear.
Payable half-yearly and cumulative.
Also convertible at 14p/sh.

That's £1.2m to find next June. (Less at future reference points.)
So if they can't pay it out of profit, something will be sold off, I imagine.