Plutus Powergen Share Discussion Threads

[bishopawn] 08/5/2017 12:08

All buys so far today. Looking much better.

[codydotcom] 08/5/2017 11:39

Savvy: "in any TRIAD period the machines have to be 100% available and are not able to operate for other streams"

That's not quite true Savvy. There is no specific contractual obligation for TRIAD. At the end of Winter, national grid decide what the triad periods were, from which charges are applied to ALL market participants, per their actual demand during those periods. There is no opt in or opt out. Triad is focused on transmission system demand, and embedded generators are seen as negative demand because they reduce the need for supply from the transmission system. Thus they receive a negative charge - or a revenue.

Something like STOR is very different. Under a STOR contract, your asset has to be available and NOT running during specific time windows, on specific days, in specific date ranges. So if you have a STOR contract, this effectively negates any other options during those specific windows.

So let's say you had a STOR contract for the previous winter, which includes times over the evening peak, on weekdays. You now have to be available and not running during those windows, so that NG can call on you to operate at short notice (hence the name Short Term Operating Reserve). It may be that during the periods which end up being TRIADs, you were sat there doing nothing because NG didn't need you. It may be that NG called on you to generate, and you would therefore also benefit from Triad revenue. So it is possible that these revenues can be combined, but you have little control over what Triad revenue you would receive. Thus a conscious decision has to be made - are we going to chase Triad, or are we going to secure a STOR contract. A STOR contract provides both an availability payment (to sit there and be available) and a utilisation payment (for those times at which you are called).

PPAs are different again. These are bilateral agreements with other market participants (or can be through daily auction, but the effect is the same), to supply power at specific times. This cannot be combined with STOR (hopefully for obvious reasons) but absolutely can be combined with Triad. If you think this evening will see a Triad, sell your output via a PPA and generate the power. If at the end of winter it was a Triad, great. If it wasn't a Triad, then hopefully you made enough money from the PPA to cover the cost of running.

It's interesting to note that you both refer to the costs of chasing triad (up to 50% of running cost). If this is true, then PPG are selling their output via PPA's, at a loss, in order to secure the Triad revenue. This will be impacted by the cost of fuel, efficiency of the engines, and the price at which they were able to sell their output via PPA. The average price they can sell at will be related to how many times they choose to run. If they operated 10 times to capture the 3 Triads, they could probably do so at profit every time. If they operate 70 times to capture the 3 Triads, then it is likely that many of those would be loss-making runs.

[rhug1966] 08/5/2017 11:25

Yes I did but never mind. This also confirms what I've read about STOR on the National Grid website. STOR also needs to be available 100% of the time. So if TRIAD gives the higher revenue, it makes sense to have the sites chasing TRIAD which corresponds to the current strategy for the new sites coming online this year. Thanks Savvy.

P.S. - is 121 and the moron on the LSE thread, the same person ?

[1savvyinvestor] 07/5/2017 20:54

Did you ask through the contact form? I have had replies from that.
My understanding regarding your question is that each site has potential multiple revenue streams and these are constantly being evaluated. I expect we will hear soon exactly how Plymouth did through the winter. TRIAD does currently give the highest payments but in any TRIAD period the machines have to be 100% available and are not able to operate for other streams. This means that although the revenues are very good from TRIAD it is the most expensive to run. Indeed I believe up to 50% of running costs are incurred in chasing TRIAD. This is why the reduction of TRIAD may not be as damaging as was at first feared.

[12124545] 07/5/2017 18:32

Why is it drivel?

[rhug1966] 07/5/2017 11:18

I did pose a question to Plutus through the q&a section but I've had no reply as yet and wondered if anyone may know the answer on here. The question I asked was, can the sites be interchangeable between revenue streams ? STOR, FFR & TRIAD, PPA streams all at one site. Or is the plan to have sites designated to generate specific streams ?

[rhug1966] 05/5/2017 09:44

Ok, fair enough.

[1savvyinvestor] 05/5/2017 09:03

Rhugg. Don't engage on the other thread. Ex investor with an axe to grind . Responsible for starting numerous threads . Just stick on here and talk about plutus

[rhug1966] 05/5/2017 08:27

Utter drivel

[1savvyinvestor] 05/5/2017 07:31

Agreed isa.

[isa2020] 05/5/2017 06:59

Read again https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications-and-updates/ofgem-sets-out-concerns-network-charging-small-electricity-distribution-connected-generators it really reads in our favour. So maybe increase my holding.

[1savvyinvestor] 04/5/2017 20:40

Seemed to indicate 1.3 but that's disappeared now. Patience from us all required now. And fingers crossed!!

[bishopawn] 04/5/2017 20:06

price rise after hours.

[bishopawn] 02/5/2017 14:44

Bottom line, as the man said in Belfast....

"Get your candles ready."

[isa2020] 02/5/2017 05:11

Maybe PPG should look at producing power in Ireland -http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/warning-of-power-cuts-and-soaring-power-prices-in-northern-ireland-35668110.htmlBasic business model "supply and demand" it won't just be for the winter months. Any thoughts

[rhug1966] 29/4/2017 17:10

The post has nothing to do with PPG.

[barnetpeter] 29/4/2017 15:01

"I have spoken to the management and am very confident in the team at PPG"

In fact, the "team" are struggling:



"In the interim the publishing of the Papillon Holdings PLC audited accounts has been delayed due to unforeseen circumstances and difficulties in quantifying, at this time, certain costs in connection with the acquisition and funding process to which the Company is committed.”


"It hasn’t been a good run recently for Charles Tatnell and James Longley, the two guys behind this company, as Plutus Powergen (PPG), where they run the show, has taken a pummelling recently too".

[isa2020] 29/4/2017 00:17

Interesting! There are products that can replacement coal with replacing or requiring a refit to the power station

[1savvyinvestor] 28/4/2017 13:53

And this from UKpowerreserve;

Our analysis demonstrates that changes of this sort, whilst superficially appearing to deliver short term benefits for consumers, will in the long run result in higher costs: further subsidies will be required to keep old and unreliable coal plant open as investment in new, flexible gas plant is deterred. The energy system is already hugely biased towards maintaining the status quo. And the result of these changes will be to sustain legacy coal and gas power stations which are dirty, inflexible and uneconomic. Our journey towards a smarter, cleaner and more affordable energy system is being dealt a big blow today.