Phoenix Copper Share Discussion Threads

[veryoldbob] 11/2/2008 20:43

Ah that must be the marvellously-named M-WAG (Mobile Wimax Acceleration Group):



Note the emphasis on "mobile" to distinguish it from Freedom4 and the fact that they're using 2.5GHz.

[brad44] 11/2/2008 20:32

Article in financial heavyweight, london lite, city and finance briefing...nearly stopped laughing..but anyway,WI Fi Rival set for rollout " A consortium of tech cos today set out plans for the first uk trial of wimax a rival to wireless internet access brand wi fi. wimax supporters say it will offer cheaper and faster broadband on the move to laptops and mobiles. The trial starts in april in maidstone. Nortel and national grids wireless division are among the consortium members"

[veryoldbob] 11/2/2008 14:19

Well that explains where some of the sale proceeds will go. Wonder how much PXC's share of the "substantial investment" is? Figures in the last annual report were 1M p.a as a "share of the start-up losses".

WiMAX was always going to be expensive to set up and this way Freedom4 gets a wedge before having to go it alone...

[troys] 11/2/2008 13:23

FREEDOM4 & Intel Expand UK Wireless Broadband Coverage
Fixed wireless broadband ISP FREEDOM4 (formerly Pipex Wireless), which recently began offering the UKs first commercial WiMAX service in Milton Keynes (news), has today announced a substantial new investment deal with Intel Corporation.

Pipex Communications PLC will also join Intel Capital in this investment, which is aimed at accelerating the deployment of Freedom4's WiMAX based broadband wireless services:

"Intel Capital is a major investor in WiMAX technology and is committed to accelerating the deployment of open-standards mobile broadband around the world," said Arvind Sodhani, president of Intel Capital. "FREEDOM4 has built a top-notch management team and this is a strategic investment opportunity through which we can help facilitate the deployment of wireless broadband in the U.K market."

Mike Read, CEO, FREEDOM4 adds, "Following the success of the commercial launch of our services in Milton Keynes, we are in the next phase of our development: making FREEDOM4 the market leader in 'personal' wireless broadband access. The investment from Intel Capital and Pipex Communications will facilitate the roll out of a WiMAX network in other cities around the U.K., providing a truly flexible service to businesses and consumers."
FREEDOM4 currently covers Milton Keynes, Manchester and Warwick, including some outlying areas. The ISP also offers a Wi-Fi service, which serves over 33,000 global Hotspots - . Further details about intended coverage will no doubt surface over the coming months.

[donkeystone] 11/2/2008 12:07

If it's in the Halifax then its:-

" ... six times more than Lloyds TSB and all these other banks ..."

[gryphon2] 11/2/2008 11:55

what is this cash earning us at present?

[lloydc] 11/2/2008 11:12

well there obviously one short there and one long in those last 2 posts lollollol

[propane] 11/2/2008 11:01

this company is now easily worth 25p a share,buy.

[ludlow3] 11/2/2008 10:39

this company is now only worth 3p a share,sell.

[veryoldbob] 11/2/2008 10:36

Not sure I've "won". I suspect I'll be a good few pence away from the final figure, but you never know. One possibility that would up the payout would be if Freedom4 is left with some of the debt. I assumed all debt would be cleared with the sale proceeds, but it is possible that some would be left. All should be revealed before the EGM so only a few weeks to go...

[lloydc] 11/2/2008 09:25

ic landsbanki upgrade pxc 2 hold fromreduce with target 9p

[bubface] 10/2/2008 14:28

good work vob.they have had two clear rns opportunities to clarify sale proceeds position but have obviously decided to leave the "before adjustments" fudge as our only guide from the company...oh well whats £23m between friends,well about 1p per share actually.so thats 12p instead of 13p!! you win vob!

[veryoldbob] 09/2/2008 22:51

Apols for the poor maths! 23M it is of course. The retention statement in full follows (from the EGM notice):

"The Disposal is being effected for a total consideration of £210 million, on a cash and debt free basis, before adjustments. Subject to the adjustments referred to below, this consideration will be satisfied at completion, save for the sum of £15,750,000 which will be held in a retention account controlled jointly by the Buyer's solicitors and the Company's solicitors from which warranty and indemnity claims and any post-completion working capital based adjustment to the Consideration would be paid (although any such required payments will not be limited to the amount held on retention). The final part of any remaining balance of the retention monies is payable to Pipex on 20 June 2008, unless at that stage there are any unresolved claims under the Sale Agreement, in which event the amount claimed is retained in the retention account pending resolution of those claims. Payment of the Consideration is guaranteed by Tiscali S.p.A."

The wording isn't as clear as it could be (when is it ever!), but the second sentence implies the 15.7M is retained from the adjusted amount. This would mean Tiscali handed over 171M initially.



And as for the RNS News and company statements - I haven't found one where the sale price hasn't had those two little words "before adjustments" after it. They have simply avoided ever saying what those adjustments were...


Edit 10/02: Forgot to add: this is the news report last September that tipped me off to the adjusted price (and it was right here on ADVFN):

[bubface] 09/2/2008 19:11

vob,i make the difference between £210m and £187m at £23m not £33m.but still therefore over 10% of current market cap which is viewed as significant by the regulatory authorities.
still confused by the escrow £15m you mention is it relative to £210m or £187m.
confused ? you will be.perhaps they had hasselhof doing the rns's too??

[chorister] 09/2/2008 18:20

>> Very old Bob ...

Obviously not too old to do some really decent homework! Many thanks, your posts are exactly what a BB should be about. Much appreciated.

[bubface] 09/2/2008 16:18

vob,it would be nice to get a static picture of how we stand.the difference between annouced sale proceeds by pxc and tiscali represents more than 10% of the present market cap and should be clarified...how else can we attempt to value a company than by official rns's.
i still feel that there will be a relatively pleasing outcome to this,deubens,his friends and family,ubs and a whole host of other people that have backed him are shareholders here,he has no other reason than to maximise value.[personally he has more money in pxc than oakley]
we will have to wait and see.

[veryoldbob] 09/2/2008 15:58

For pre-disposal balances, the last interim report gives the balance sheet as of 30th June 2007. That's where I got the 130M debt figure from. Cash and equivalents were 35M odd at that time.

Misrepresenting the sale price by 33M is a bit naughty but I've never caught them quoting the £210M without those magic words "before adjustments". Made a difference to my calculations!

Almost time for the annual report which would shed a bit more light on matters, but I suspect it'll all be over by then...

[bubface] 09/2/2008 15:11

thx vob for digging out the news items.my estimate of current £100m+ is not reliant on tiscali exact proceeds,but also combination of other factors such as pre disposal balances,i believe the company also retained the freehold properties from broadband biz worth £10m [have these been sold?].
i do think the company should have given more information/guidance to shareholders with statement as to current cash status post loan payback..especially when there is the discrepancy that vob has alighted to.but why should thay start now?

[veryoldbob] 09/2/2008 14:50

By the way, the figure held in escrow is (according to PXC at least), some 15M due to be paid in June 2008, so can't explain the 187M figure:

"Subject to the adjustments referred to below, this consideration will be satisfied at completion, save for the sum of £15,750,000 which will be held in a retention account controlled jointly by the Buyer's solicitors and the Company's solicitors"

[veryoldbob] 09/2/2008 14:41

Chorister:

Note that everytime PXC mention the Tiscali sale the magic words "before adjustments" are mentioned! Tiscali have made two formal statements to the Italian Stock Exchange confirming the figure *after* adjustments:

"The price originally established in the contract for the purchase of the Division, GBP 210 million (around EUR 310 million), was subject to an adjustment mechanism and reduced, when the Transaction was finalised, to GBP 187 million (around EUR 274 million) based on the estimates of the net financial position and working capital of the Division at that date, as well as the number of active customers of the Division as of 31st August 2007."



and again in the latest set of interim results:

"The acquisition was approved by Pipex's shareholders' meeting and by the UK Office of Fair Trading on 17 August and was formalized on 13 September 2007. The final price was established as GBP 187 million (around € 273 million)."

[spights] 09/2/2008 14:19

bubface I agree with you.I would be happy to have around 12p per share back (although I would have liked more) Plus I am pleased we are not selling Freedom4

[bubface] 09/2/2008 13:27

the £210m is the sale price for broadband,£23m held in escrow pending meeting sale criteria.some has already been released i understand and the rest could be released if the company pays insurance premium against likelihood of claim or not sure of the timeframe.there was competitive interest in the assets being disposed of,oakley will not be able to steal them.deubens does not decide whether they sell the assets and at what price...it is the independent directors decision.i still think that the sale will realise £120-£130m.
i think the company has net cash in excess of £100m currently and with sale proceeds recieved i still think we will get equivilent of 10p + in cash and a equity holding in freedom4 worth 1-3p [wide i know].
increased holding friday below 7.3p...a steal.

[chorister] 09/2/2008 12:09

>> Very old Bob

Any reconciliation between the £210M headline sale to Tiscali and your £187M? I may have missed something, but I can't see it (though the market seems to be agreeing with you).

TIA

[troys] 09/2/2008 10:05

How much will UBS be charging for investigating a number of strategic options?

[buywell2] 09/2/2008 09:50

What are the 'further debts' ?

Should the sale of its hosting and networking business go through, Pipex plans to add the proceeds to the remains of those from the broadband sale, and return the capital to shareholders, after clearing possible further debts.