Partnership Share Discussion Threads

[rjmahan] 27/4/2014 20:37

I exited this - not convinced it will turn round - at least dead cats bounce!

[alyo] 25/4/2014 13:27

That's exactly why Pa are signing multi million pound contracts unrelated to annuities

[hawkhybrid] 25/4/2014 09:51

I think jrg is handling the crisis better. there is
a reason why jrg directors have bought in after the drop
and pa. directors have not. pa. directors can't all be
strapped for cash, and if they are, why are you confident in
directors who have poor contingency plans in their
own lives.

with the above reason I believe the 2 companies are
not directly comparable at this point.

companies are not just about the business, but also about
the people who run the companies.

HH

[alyo] 25/4/2014 09:14

Looking Just retirement's share price , we should be at 160p in accordance.

[scrapheap] 21/4/2014 18:34

I agree - it isn't helpful to my confidence when you see JRG directors putting some of their money in to play but not the PA. ones.

[topvest] 21/4/2014 16:39

Some of them already have very big holdings, but yes you would expect some director buys at some point.

[ochs] 21/4/2014 15:52

I agree that annuities still have a place in retirement planning and have hence bought into PA. and JRG. As someone else mentioned it's surprising no PA directors have bought since the Budget... afterall the shares are down from a high of over 500p and they are not in a closed period. Any thoughts?

[scrapheap] 21/4/2014 15:06

Those who are perhaps more 'sophisticated' and now think annuities will be dead, are probably the same people who would not have bought an annuity in the first place under the current rules!

[scrapheap] 21/4/2014 15:05

Topvest - 100% agree, in my experience of advising clients at retirement with this bit especially

"I suspect everyone is different, but I think the market is under-estimating the psychological aspect of not having a guaranteed income on retirement when your pay cheque stops. Income draw-down is not suitable for 75%+ of the population."

My view is people in their 40s/50s like the carrot of taking it 'all out' but at retirement many if not most will find the lack of guaranteed income when the pay cheques are to stop - other than state pension whenever that may be - means income for life with no investment risk is still likely to be a dominant desire.

The more using the open market option, the merrier as far as PA. and JRG are concerned of course!

[topvest] 21/4/2014 14:01

It's a difficult market to predict. I have a large share portfolio, a defined benefit pension (now a deferred member) and a defined contribution scheme. In 7-10 years or so I think that I would still plan to take an annuity on the defined contribution scheme, but that is the smallest of my "pension pots". I suspect everyone is different, but I think the market is under-estimating the psychological aspect of not having a guaranteed income on retirement when your pay cheque stops. Income draw-down is not suitable for 75%+ of the population.

[bluprince] 21/4/2014 13:03

World's largest asset manager BlackRock foresees UK pensions bonanza
---------------------------------------------------------------------

BlackRock, the world's largest asset manager, is to swoop into Britain's pensions market with an aggressive challenge to UK life assurers after concluding that the government's recent reforms could lead to the collapse of the annuities market.

It is the first clear signal that global fund managers are preparing to take on a market from which they were in effect barred until reforms announced in the Budget last month.

hxxp://www.sundiatapost.com/worlds-largest-asset-manager-blackrock-foresees-uk-pensions-bonanza/

[topvest] 21/4/2014 09:56

These seem good value at the moment. You are effectively buying the in-force book at close to EEV and the rest of the (previously very profitable business) for an option value. The uncertainty is probably what is doing it. The market doesn't know whether the market is finished or reduced or not as badly impacted as thought. They will have a difficult couple of years. That said, there is plenty of new business for creative companies like this so with a medium to long term view looks an interesting proposition.

[18bt] 17/4/2014 16:33

Why people should have annnuities:

hxxp://www.partnership-group.com/media/news/company/2014/pensions-minister-comments.aspx

[hawkhybrid] 15/4/2014 13:47

jrg share price could be performing better due to director
buys.

HH

[alyo] 15/4/2014 09:17

Ev is slightly above180p

[poppabear4u] 15/4/2014 07:48

Is the fall overdone? Dec NAVps was only 130p. JRG NAVps was 160p so if anything they look better value. Future still v uncertain for both so I am waiting for more signs from both as to what they will do in the future.

[alyo] 14/4/2014 15:58

Fall overdone. Look at JRG. In @ 130p

[topvest] 13/4/2014 08:32

This is on their web-site
hxxp://www.partnership-group.com/media/news/company/2014/partnership-sign-buy-in-deal.aspx
Looks like the defined benefit part of their business is starting to motor. It will certainly help to pick up some of the slack on the defined contribution annuity business this year. Surely, this is a big growth area for them?

They have also appointed a new leader for the bulk annuity part of their business:

Costas Yiasoumi, Director of Defined Benefit Solutions added:

"UK defined benefit pension exposures exceed a trillion pounds and each year several billion pounds are insured using bulk annuities. Partnership already has a successful presence in retail annuities through its medically underwritten annuity proposition. I look forward to leveraging this platform and proprietary mortality expertise to deliver bulk annuity solutions to UK defined benefit pension schemes. "

This market may be about half the size as the current retail annuity market, but wasn't it always predicted that defined benefit pension schemes would de-risk when conditions improved? Just wonder if this is the next big thing for PA.? £84m last year in the first year, but run-rate looks closer to £40m per quarter now, so could be £150m-£200m+ this year. This is already at a 1/5th of the retail market....in year 2! Not sure on the profitability of bulk annuities versus retail. Probably lower margin?

[alyo] 11/4/2014 10:25

I remember Thomas Cook was supposedly going to bankrupt and Pace too after the Thai floods. They both had solid fundamentals so bought in. Partnership is no different and will find a way to adapt . There are other awful companies with bad management like Gulf Keystone with 52 week low sps but with Partnership you are totally confident in the future and sp

[alyo] 11/4/2014 08:51

I agree massively oversold. A big correction is due.

[ochs] 09/4/2014 19:15

Sensible statement out today from JRG too.

Do we have any idea at present how the 'required advice' at retirement will work in practice? Who will pay for it for example? The government? The client?

[scrapheap] 09/4/2014 08:14

they had to maintain the promised 3p dividend or that would have looked like panic... so a nice payment coming soon at least!

[scrapheap] 09/4/2014 07:37

The market for enhanced annuities remains so they should definitely just carry on - they can however look at new products to compliment this so more fixed term annuity options to a maturity value of £0 in x-years time and/or a product which lets you vary the income taken over that fixed term year to year and not just a flat or pre-set income on it. Both without investment risk for the purchaser.

[actybod] 09/4/2014 07:14

Statement out - I tend to agree with all that's said. The reduction in annuity market probably isn't bad as first feared. Oversold IMO