O Twelve Estates Share Discussion Threads

[vitalize] 17/8/2010 11:09

It's safer on this ship, than to jump into frozen waters. The company is grossly undervalued as was NTA for a long time. - Accumulating

[cyril4] 13/8/2010 10:48

looks like a good time to jump ship

[daniel] 03/8/2010 19:03

Yes, we do agree. Thanks!

[topvest] 02/8/2010 09:34

No hidden agenda for me daniel, although you seem to think I have one for some bizarre reason. Lets just drop it as we seem to both agree on the best way forward which is for OTE to carry on as is.

[daniel] 02/8/2010 09:28

I' am certainly not an idiot Topvest, but those lousy thoughts of your serves the company and its shareholders no good whatsoever. On the contrary, I feel you're an intelligent person with a hidden agenda.

At least we can agree that equity funding does not make sense in current circumstance, given the heavy dilution and the non participation of key investors. The best way forward is to optimise OTE's portfolio, rather than seeking to maximise it at an irredeemable cost, as the Olympics approaches.

[topvest] 31/7/2010 14:34

With respect, don't be an idiot.

I'm a supporter of OTE generally. The position is this as far as I see it. The Property Advisor and Board would like to expand to get out of the hole they are in. The Property Manager is good, but has a diminishing asset portfolio. I'm a holder in Rugby Estates and they are doing a capital return at the moment. They need more assets under management.

So, I think OTE were looking to raise funds, but as you say it doesn't really make sense without dilution and Panther + Utilico aren't likely to support putting more money in. Best result here is to limp through to the Olympics, and return 30p or so. Still a very good return which is why I'm a holder.

[daniel] 30/7/2010 11:28

The fact is this, the Board must understand that less competent management in real estate companies that have suffered huge dilutions have gone nowhere. The share price is held down for ages. On the other hand, companies like Minever and Quintain; which have completely avoided dilutions or at rock bottom prices while their portfolio valuation improved have gain over 500% in share prices in past 15 months. There is no better placed real estate company in the LSE with similar opportunity than OTE with the approach of the Olympics.
Topvest comments may be designed to talk the company down in the hope acquiring large shares, otherwise I cannot justify why a holder would be clamouring for dilution.

[daniel] 30/7/2010 11:28

And what don't you understand about...

"In the absence of such an injection of new cash, and provided property values remain stable over the next year, the Board expects to be able to meet the loan covenant requirements over the next year by making modest property disposals"

Such funding doesn't make sense in the current circumstances. A downturn in portfolio valuation may have led to consideration of funding; but on the other hand it's best avoided, when there has been a pick up in trading & valuation. The overall effect of equity funding is far more expensive to company and shareholders than any current perceived benefit.

[topvest] 29/7/2010 22:13

Just read the statement properly, before ranting:

"The Board is actively exploring opportunities to raise additional |
| equity capital in order to reduce borrowings and gearing and to take |
| advantage of new opportunities. In the absence of such an injection of |
| new cash, and provided property values remain stable over the next |
| year, the Board expects to be able to meet the loan covenant |
| requirements over the next year by making modest property disposals. "

[daniel] 29/7/2010 13:13

Put your mouth where your heart is my friend, and stop scaremongering.
It will certainly be irresponsible and suicidal for the board to seek equity fundraising at this late stage of the game, after the share price has been decimated, except they have an evil agenda. Particularly; given the stability and modest increase in the property value, reasonability of modest disposals and the fact that the Olympics is so near.
What makes this board one of the best in the real estate sector of recent years is the skills with which they have managed OTE's property portfolio and finances by avoiding huge dilutions. The board could not now throw all its achievements away, irrespective of the pressure from brokers and advisers who wish to line their own pockets; otherwise what's the point of disposing a precious jewel in the crown.


Phillip Rhodes, Chairman of O Twelve, said: |
| "The uplift in property values during the second half of the financial |
| year was a welcome bright spot after what has been the deepest and |
| furthest reaching property downturn in recent times. However, the |
| extent and duration of this upturn remains uncertain. Therefore, with |
| the assistance of our Property Adviser and the continued support of our |
| Lenders, cash preservation and generation coupled with strong asset |
| management continue to be the key focus of the Board." |
| |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| David Tye of Rugby Asset Management added: |
| "Prospects for the real estate market have improved. We believe that O |
| Twelve's Target Area of activity is well placed to take advantage of |
| this optimism. The Olympic Games are fast approaching and the |
| unprecedented public and private investment that is driving Europe's |
| largest single regeneration project around Stratford, London's East End |
| and the Thames Gateway is gathering momentum and this should result in |
| a strengthening of occupational demand."

[topvest] 28/7/2010 21:35

daniel - I suggest you read the results. They are trying to raise funds, as the Chairman stated...Read! I don't believe Utilico and Panther will play ball though. I have no motive and do own shares in OTE, not that it has been the best investment of all time. Just providing my thoughts.

[daniel] 28/7/2010 10:00

Oympic boost for east London house prices

Some house prices near the main site for the London 2012 Olympics have risen sharply since the Games were awarded in 2008, Lloyds TSB says.

Homerton and Shoreditch  both in the borough of Hackney - have seen average property prices rise by 69% and 53% respectively, significantly above the Greater London average of 36%.

Lloyds TSB housing economist Suren Thiru said: "Some areas close to the Olympic Park have experienced a sharp rise in property prices since London's successful bid to host the 2012 Olympic and Paralympic Games.

"Part of this rise is likely to have been due to an increased interest in property in these locations from both buyers and investors as a result of the associated regeneration taking place.

"The picture, however, is mixed.

"Looking forward, property prices across East London are likely to receive a boost from the legacy of improved infrastructure and transport links left by the London 2012."

[daniel] 28/7/2010 09:59

Topvest your opinion are completely irrelevant. You are not invested in the company and have ulterior motives. You are neither a holder nor a seller, you simply wish to deramp and buy at a reduce price. The company is adequately financed with no need for any fundraising which it has avoided in the thick of the meltdown. So please get in or keep out.

[topvest] 15/7/2010 19:30

I'd be very surprised if he would be supportive of a fundraising as that would not be good for the PANTHER investment.

[cyril4] 14/7/2010 10:56

not a peep from perloff

[topvest] 14/7/2010 09:28

Not being negative, just realistic. I'm a holder, rather than buyer or seller on the back of these results.

[ntv] 14/7/2010 08:41

results slightly above my forecast
happy to hold here along with strong shareholder base

[daniel] 14/7/2010 07:56

NAV is 24p period! You can't get them cheaper.
Topvest, Stop putting a negative slant on the company

[topvest] 14/7/2010 07:23

Reasonably positive results. NAV only 11p, but 23-24p excluding the interest rate swap. Potential fundraising may hang over these though. Best way back from here is to stick with the covenants and wait for property values to recover. I can't see the big shareholders (Perloff and Utilico) effectively writing off their existing investment.

[topvest] 12/7/2010 22:15

Given they have lost 90% of shareholders funds (based on the latest share price), I think that's a bit generous. Does look good from here though and Rugby Estates are good managers.

[daniel] 12/7/2010 17:19

Your arguement is not applicable to OTE Hyper al

The next greatest event in the world is the London Olympics. OTE is well positioned to capitalise on the event. This is one of the very few property companies in the LSE that have successfully refinanced and paid down its debts without dilutions to shareholders. I expect a very good result this week and a positive outlook from one of the best management around in the real estate sector.

[quepassa] 05/7/2010 07:54

From OTE's web-site:-

Financial Calendar

Forecast Key Dates Event Event Date
Next interim announcement 14 - Dec - 2010
Next AGM 27 - Aug - 2010
Next annual report due 14 - Jul - 2010
Next prelim announcement 13 - Jul - 2010


QP

[hyper al] 17/6/2010 09:56

NTV

They don't have much choice the bank has told them to reach strict targets as mentioned in the refinancing deal RNS

This is exactly why I keep clear of bank loans, the banks more or less now control how OTE can operate, any blip in keeping to these strict targets and the banks will want even more control, remember the banks are now after every penny they can get. Listed companies with loans are good targets, because the banks know that they have had lots of capital input from the stock market over the years.

[ntv] 17/6/2010 09:18

note recent sale of property and repayment of debt

[hyper al] 17/6/2010 09:06

NTV

You mentioned these on the DXR. Did you say they have assets worth 20p?
All I can see is a loan from Nationwide ie debt.
Just a personal thing, but don't invest in listed companies that have additional finance from banks. Even if the company can service the payments, the banks always have first option over the company assets, so if things go wrong the banks basically just about take everything. The banks can also call in loans at any time.