MWB Group Share Discussion Threads

[spectoacc] 16/5/2012 15:03

Selling assets for working capital.

[markt] 15/5/2012 12:17

Ah ha !!

....have to agree with you (for any novices....it is common that the FD will leave a sinking ship before it sinks, to avoid dirtying his CV...or being involved in a company before put into administration or protected operation...

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One key question for me....

Have the directors made money out of MWB while shareholders have lost ?
And if so, has it been intentional.....and if so, should anything be investigated by the FSA ?


(running their own hotel related business from the same offices (to make personal gain for themselves, having a director controlled company do the operating of the HQ, having loan notes that paid high interest to themselves (and others)...at a price that most people would say was exorbitant/illegal)

(A related party of David Marshall, MWB non-exec. dir. bought 60k pnds of MWB loan notes around 2000-2002, when they were issued I guess.....reported in the depths of accounts of other companies)

[williamgtheobald] 08/5/2012 14:48

Nice to see Jagtar Singh has decided to leave now as the company enters its final phase. The replacement finance director only an interim which says it all!

[markt] 02/5/2012 13:53

Red Dog 24 Apr'12 - 11:37 - 416 of 417

"Much more likely another group will buy out MWB. With new management in place, they are hardly likely to let the company fold"


Uhhhhh ??!!

(I thought that only the chairman had been changed ...and he is still on the board...as a non-exec.)

"With new management in place, they are hardly likely to let the company fold"

...you gotta be joking !...surely !
(If anyone is collecting quotes for an investment quotes book....I'd put that sentence into it !)
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Most of the directors benefitting now and in the past from related party transactions....are still there.

has MWB been intentionally bled by the directors' own vehicle ?
operated for personal gain of the directors and syphoning off the shareholders money ?
been operated for benefit of their own business operating from the same offices (hotel conferences) ?

300p to 6p. I think any discussion of the capabilities of the MWB directors is answered by that data.

maybe we will never know....unless there is some FSA investigation and that seems unlikely.

[spectoacc] 24/4/2012 15:03

Unfortunately there's a big difference between the company surviving, and the shareholders still owning any of it. We'll see - fingers crossed.

[red dog] 24/4/2012 11:37

Much more likely another group will buy out MWB. With new management in place, they are hardly likely to let the company fold.

[scburbs] 24/4/2012 09:00

Bonio10000, The expansion plans being mooted are not capital intensive so not necessarily a comment on the company's financial position.

The refinancing has given them breathing space and they need to create something sufficiently valuable to sell/refinance (or raise equity if they can get it at a decent value) before it all gets taken away for £1! It would be difficult for anyone whose refinancing arrangements include a £1 option to claim they are not in dire straits!

That's before discussing the eye popping interest rates (somehow watering isn't sufficient!). I can't remember who thought the interest rates on the related party loan notes were too high, but I hope they now realise that they were under market rates not over!

[bonio10000] 24/4/2012 08:42

I take that point fully, the reason for posting the article was that, if the company has such plans, then it hardly smacks of them being in dire straits financially?

FWIW - I think most of the recent portion of the share price fall is technical due to repeated small sells. Momentum is great on the way up and terrible on the way down.

[williamgtheobald] 23/4/2012 22:21

Re: Dr Knowledge 410

Point well said this company should put all expansion plans on hold until it has sorted out its debt serviceability, and with an economic climate getting worse this isn't going to be an easy.

[red dog] 23/4/2012 15:18

Will another group takeover MWB?

[bonio10000] 21/4/2012 16:52

I would think some sort of fundraising (Phyrro?) to pay off the expensive debts and maybe a MWB sale.

[dr knowledge] 21/4/2012 16:47

Article is actually pretty old news - amazing though that he claims that with ONLY £180m debt it is now time for expansion - what about the debt serviceability of the group?? Still think white knight or opportunitistc PE bid follwed by sale of non core and renegotiated debt structure is only hope for sustained recovery of the Hotel business. ;-)

[bonio10000] 21/4/2012 13:46

life in the old dog?

[williamgtheobald] 20/4/2012 16:34

Looks like my £9,000 has gone down the drain. This company has obviously got big funding issues, starting to wonder whether it is a going concren? Still nice to see though we now have a new non executive director to help with Corporate Governance. Bit like shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted!

[markt] 12/3/2012 17:36

"SpectoAcc - 12 Mar'12 - 13:12 - 405 of 406


Balfour-Lynn got 10% of the co I see; what's he going to do with them I wonder? "


Maybe you could make him an offer !!

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I wonder if the directors have previously got back most of their investment costs......that perhaps their remaining shares are for free..or at least reduced their current loss....I don't know, I haven't tried to calculate it..

from
- 9.75% interest on any conv. loan notes they have (like warrants that pay a big divi !)
- profits from operating their own conference business from the same offices
- profits from running the HQ, at very high cost to MWB, subsequently stopped
- anything else ?

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share price keeps going down the toilet ..even after 10p....
I assume that means that the city chaps and big players have analysed the accounts and think there is a feasible chance of the hotels part going bust and/or having negative assetts (I haven't really tried, difficult to unravel I think, and accounts are one thing, reality could be something different !)...officially they keep clocking in bottom line losses, which surely can't go on for ever...

[markt] 12/3/2012 17:27

Bit of related info...looks like problems paying the lease costs...of Barcelo Hotels paying Puma Hotels




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imho the lease costs that MWB has to pay...around 7-8% I think....gonna take a big chunk out of any op. profit that MWB manages to make...risk perhaps of having to run to stand still

[spectoacc] 12/3/2012 13:12

Balfour-Lynn got 10% of the co I see; what's he going to do with them I wonder?

[markt] 12/3/2012 12:32

if MWB goes bust.....be another one for David C.Marshall to add to his collection !

Doctors Direct, Sanctuary Grp.....taken over by their lenders

if turned into 3...that would be almost 3 out of 6 from the strategic investments made over the last 10 years by David C.Marshall vehicle LFI and its subsidiaries.

business is risky....companies rise and fall...but if it turned out to be 3 out of 6 during 10 years...well that would be pretty bad in anybodies book...

[markt] 09/3/2012 17:02

BTW has anyone calculated whether Richard Balfour-Lynn made or lost money for himself while running MBW, MBE ?

be interesting to know

would have to include any payments from loan notes....(10% I think), and from very high cost of directors vehicle that ran MWB (till that was stopped), and from running conference business from same offices as MWB


Will Creston go the same way ?

CEO Don Elgie is imo on an excessive benefits package...while he has produced a share price of 60p after backing into a shell at 96p in 2000 !!...and various cash raising at around 130p.
His benefits package takes 2 pages of the annual report !
If he doesn't get a big bonus via perf. condit. c) then he will get via condit. e) or f) !
Only has to beat GDP growth for part of it !!...not exactly stretching.
(2M pnds in 2010 incl shares, and co. only makes around 5M PAT, so he got 30-40% of the co. PAT despite the co. having 900 workers, ridiculous imo..and share price since he arrived in 2000 has been down !)

The common element ??

David C Marshall !
Correct me if I am wrong...but he backed them both into shells I think. Creston and MWB
(from MWB he's picked up around 360k I think....well paid to overseas company...so one assumes tax free and Nat. Insur. free ?...his co. or his wife's ??....who knows...with UK disclosure rules ...it is all secret !!)
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BTW...imho...UK shareholders need to be more active....and kick out directors that do not produce results or shareholder value (Don Elgie for example).....only kicking them out when the game is almost over and a company is on its knees...perhaps too late...very difficult to recover...

[bonio10000] 09/3/2012 10:00

Lol at statement from Pyrrho.

Basically - you are a nob jockey and good riddance.

Sell MBE - bank £50m, pay off another load of debt and run the hotel side.

[dr knowledge] 09/3/2012 09:49

Indeed, but unlikely IMO. More so, is an investor who can come in, exit the non core business, re-negotiate the bank debt and focus on the core assets and turnaround the hotel business. At these levels, must offer some upside and the potential is there to turnaround what Balfour virtually destroyed (in China he'd be at best serving life). ;-)

[fatcontroller2] 09/3/2012 09:15

As long as its not a prepack administration which saves the banks and stuffs the shareholders!

[investor_tp] 08/3/2012 17:47

Question is if it makes any difference to minority shareholders (in case there are any left, that is).

[dr knowledge] 08/3/2012 17:08

Fatcontroller2 - the Banks must have loved him (repeat one of the worst refinancing deals I've ever encountered in my life!). Mind you I'm now watching the stock as I smell some corproate action coming our way (about time the Group was under "management" ideally new management! ;-)