Mood Media Share Discussion Threads

[corbys finest] 13/9/2008 14:40

I'm not your friend. Lets put out that little fire right now.

[malkie] 13/9/2008 14:36

you my friend have a persecution complex!

[corbys finest] 13/9/2008 12:56

LoL!

In good old fashioned bb rampy rampy style, a few doubters come along and the moderate button comes out.


Pathetic.


Maybe small investors should take an IQ test before being allowed to invest in the stock market.

Or before being allowed a moderate button.

[malkie] 13/9/2008 12:32

A Market Maker learns
Private Investors
will have a choice in future!






This thread is intended to start a debate about the state of the AIM Market Maker system and its effect on AIM Small Cap stocks.Set it as your favourite and keep checking back for updates.

The poll which started 5th September had 184 responses by the end of our 1st day.

As of 10th September it is now up to 825 thanks to a nice mention in moneyweek.com by our friend and PI champion Dominic Frisby!

We want to get numbers up to at least 5000 and send a petition to the LSE and the media.....

Please support us, just post a quick comment (even if its just to say hi!) and it will help keep the thread up in the ratings - and you will be part of it!!

The www.killthespread.com website is up and running, please keep checking back here for updates.

We really need the support to keep going - especially in the early days!!

So if you can just post a quick word or two on the thread - and please tell everyone you know!!!

If you have a view on this issue, then make yourself heard!!

any questions to: [e-mail]

.........................



this by Dominic Frisby in Moneyweek 10th September 2008



Aim – a chance to have your say

Just before I go, some months back I had a go at Aim and its market-maker system. (See: What's wrong with AIM? ). It's another case of a poor incentive structure, I'm afraid. Well, it seems I've started some kind of revolution and some noble private investors have taken it upon themselves to hold an enormous poll about Aim and go to the London Stock Exchange (LSE) with the results.

Their incentive is both financial – as a better market will mean their investments will fare better – and moral, in that if they succeed they should be hailed as heroes by all investors! Vote and have your say - I strongly urge you to do so.

You never know. The LSE might actually listen. After Monday's debacle, it's about time they did something right.
..................


this article by Dominic Frisby from Moneyweek sums up the problem

..


Stock exchange operators want companies to list and there's nothing wrong with that. The problem is with happens next. Once a company has 'floated', the exchange, the brokers, the advisers and so on have all made their money. While they might like to see companies thrive, financially it doesn't matter to them whether the company sinks or swims.

As Charles Breese, founder of Armshare.com, says, the LSE is too intent on simply recruiting new Aim entrants and is not doing enough to stimulate the secondary market, where existing holders are able to sell out and new investors can get involved.

On the exchanges in Canada, if you want to sell a stock, you offer it at a set price. That offer is placed on the exchange and if somebody wants to buy, they can at that level. In short, this is a direct, transparent market. AIM has seen fit to use a different method, the market maker system, with such transparency. I reckon that as a result of this system – and the market makers operating it - liquidity on the exchange has all but dried up.

........................................................

September 08, 2008

A Toothless Market That Offers No Liquidity And Locks Its Directors Out - Just What Exactly Is The Point Of An Aim Listing?



................................................................

September 06 2008

Liquidity-hit London Aim companies looking at SA dual listings – JSE



........................................................

October 09 2008

We got a great mention in the Fleet Street Letter



How you can vote against sky-high dealing spreads Now I have come across an initiative to tackle this problem and you can find it on www.killthespread.com. The idea behind this campaign is that AIM should move away from a trading system that relies on market makers to one that gives potential buyers and sellers direct access to the market.

This already happens in Canada and Australia, where shareholders can indicate their desired trades and then transact business directly with one another. At the very least this reduces the cost of the market-makers' dealing spread. It can also ensure that share prices are determined by knowing buyers and sellers rather than arbitrary mark-ups and mark-downs by the market- makers. Such a system would help both investors and AIM-listed companies. And it might do something to stem the exodus from AIM – something that is far more pertinent today than any of the LSE's ambitions to expand the market yet further.

I have signed up to the www.killthespread.com campaign and if you are interested in dealing in small company shares at a fair price then I suggest that you do the same.

Tom Bulford
for The Penny Sleuth


...............................................

Here is a link to a survey we have running on the subject. Please take 2 minutes to complete it and also add some comments if you can.





oh - and please spread the word & help get this thread going!!

cheers

malkie

[corbys finest] 12/9/2008 18:07

Cheers Nige.

[malkie] 12/9/2008 17:48

We had to change the name of the campaign so as not to include the word AIM, as this is proprietary to the LSE.

It is now www.killthespread.com and we hope to have the site up and running by Monday.

Over 950 people have completed the poll and we are ready to move on to the next phase.

We are now working on a White Paper study document which will be presented to the LSE and the media along with the petition.

It will detail case studies and examples demonstrating how all LSE stakeholders - including market makers - are badly served by the current Market Maker system.

It will certainly give the LSE something to mull over

[corbys finest] 11/9/2008 19:40

This is an example of why these boards are more the problem than anything else.

I posted this on the PRL thread a few weeks ago :

Well my take is this.

As long as no bad news is forthcoming, then we should see a rise pretty soon.

The shares were sold off on the highs of June looking at the volume chart. They then consolidated around the middle of July for a few weeks (it looks like at this point the sell off continued, but PI bargain hunters were buying them up as "it can't go any lower"). The sell of has continued again pushing the share price further down which indicates in the absence of news that we have a forced seller - by the pick up in volume I would say they are almost complete.

I'd look for a big drop tomorrow and quick rise back to flat to signal the last of the sellers.




Not perfect research, but quite balanced I thought.

News of a resource update is released, and I preach caution. Guess what happens!




Corbys finest - 2 Sep'08 - 07:49 - 695 of 1173 - MODERATED

donny brassedoff - 2 Sep'08 - 07:50 - 696 of 1173


get in!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ps derampers not welcome, had an argument when it had rocketed to 20p but at this price not welcome. Have said earlier on the thread, S.Gobi Resources on the TSE is valued at $2 billion+ , a company operating right next to Polo.
If the seller has finally finished then this is at last blast off.

Howdydoda - 2 Sep'08 - 07:56 - 697 of 1173


We are in for a ride now.

GERRI-C - 2 Sep'08 - 07:56 - 698 of 1173


Got to feel some sympathy for prior sellers.

humbugg - 2 Sep'08 - 07:58 - 699 of 1173


pomp,
a very pleasing RNS. onwards and upwards.

Howdydoda - 2 Sep'08 - 08:00 - 700 of 1173


GERRI-C, it's not like some guys here haven't been trying to help them.

rodeobob - 2 Sep'08 - 08:02 - 701 of 1173


Fingers crossed

Charles Clore - 2 Sep'08 - 08:05 - 702 of 1173






That's where yer problem lies mucker.

[malkie] 11/9/2008 12:41

andy - just posted something for you on the proactive BB...

[aughton 3] 11/9/2008 10:47

HEGY another example trades going through @ 25.25, mms wont sell yet the offer price is 24.5 ?? how is that right

[malkie] 11/9/2008 10:41

Max Euwe - 11 Sep'08 - 00:52 - 177 of 180 (premium)

malkie, it's not the market makers, it's the managements, the brokers, and the rest who 'want their cut', not to mention some of the shareholders themselves
.........................................

is it not significant that brokers are often the market makers as well?

Remember the initial float is contingent on the secondary market and an effective facility to trade shares. As such it is an essential part of what AIM is supposed to be about.

I do not intent to argue every single point in an attempt to see off each individual poster as this will not be productive.

It is quite clear that a few do not feel there is a case to publicly question the contributory effect the AIM Market Maker system on the market for small caps.

Yet judging from the overwhelming support we are now receiving, these people are clearly in the minority.

The fact that someone has flagged our poll as inappropriate is the best news of all!!

It is proof positive that someone doesn't like what we are doing. And that my friends is music to the ears of the media!!

So a big thank you to whomever that was as we now have the attention of a particular national publication whom prior to this, wasn't particularly interested in the story!!

Anyway it seems the poll is now back up and running but as you can see it shows it has been flagged.

Andy, thanks for spreading the word to the Proactive crew, grateful for the support!

Cheers
M

[andy] 11/9/2008 09:20

Clearly someone's cage has been rattled!

Good, he more they try to surpress something the more suppot it will create.

[corbys finest] 11/9/2008 07:52

Bl00dy masonic MMs eh.

They'll be to blame.

[fairdeal2008] 11/9/2008 07:48

It seems some erstewhile contributor has flagged our poll as inappropriate. Which means Mister Poll have to review the content of the poll to check its OK and could suspend the poll if they wish.

Now this measure is normally reserved for polls that contain exceptionally rude or offensive comment, rather than a survey of attitudes to a trading system in the London market.

Seems that someone considers our poll rude or offensive. Suppose it would be to someone making huge amounts of money at others' expense.

Hopefully Mister Poll will simply dismiss the flag and not remove the poll. Of course we have downloaded the results anyway, so would still have the data....

imho

[andy] 11/9/2008 00:52

grahamite2,

I was just addressing both of your replies with my opinion, sorry it wasn't clear.

Wide spreads actively discourage TRADING (as opposed to invertment) IMO.

Some sample spreads from today;


AIMR - 33%
CAPE - 40%
FDI - 9.6%
GAl - 14%
GGG - 11.7%
VDS - 23%
MXX - 11.7%

Pretty tough to make money trading any of those, unless you propose from the outset to hold for the longer term.

[andy] 11/9/2008 00:31

Malkie,

I have started a thread on Proactiveinvestors.co.uk.




I suggest people start on other sites to inform as many people as possible.

[fairdeal2008] 11/9/2008 00:28

Website now under development. At the moment its not very exciting lol:

www.killthespread.com

[esrimeur] 11/9/2008 00:20

'Andy'

Ask your mate. Better still, post that address you were so fond of. Best of all, apologise to people who were right all along, you loathsome creature.

[grahamite2] 11/9/2008 00:20

No offence Andy, but just to be clear, I was emphatically not agreeing with frizzers.

[corbys finest] 11/9/2008 00:18

I don't hear anyone complaining about the spreadbetting companies.

They sometimes have even bigger spreads, + a premium for a gsl.

[andy] 11/9/2008 00:15

Frizzers, grahamite2,

"The market maker system kills liquidity."

---------

I totally agree.

Wide spreads discourage trading, period.

The difference between Canada and UK is the narower spreads there encourage people to take a punt, knowing they can minimise their loss if the trade moves against them, whilst here, the far wider spreads ensure a hefty loss for just a few points move in the worng direction.

Surely you are more likely to trade with a narrow spread, and the increased liquidity it brings?

[grahamite2] 10/9/2008 23:56

I tell you what Corbys, it's a shame maestro is now living in a cardboard box, he'd have a field day here.

[corbys finest] 10/9/2008 23:50

Aye Graham, 'tis a strange thread.

What exactly do people want?

[grahamite2] 10/9/2008 23:48

"The market maker system kills liquidity."

This from frizzers must be the most bizarre remark on this curious thread. Perhaps he is too young to remember the matched bargain system under Rule 42(?) for small stocks. That distressed seller who was 'only' offered 1p might be very glad to take it rather than offer the stock at 'fair' value and find there were no takers at all for months.