Leeds Share Discussion Threads

[gingerplant] 30/3/2010 07:20

Is there any reason beyond long-suffering weariness that you all seem so pessimistic?

No, that's the point - there's never an outer and PG's presence deters would-be suitors, unfortunately.

[stewjames] 30/3/2010 07:08

Hmmm. Been a while since I really looked here, and it now seems remarkably cheap.

Is there any reason beyond long-suffering weariness that you all seem so pessimistic?

[deswalker] 29/3/2010 19:28

I'm clinging, I'm clinging ...

Good to see the TS pulling in the punters. Just the one trade today, a 6000 share sell....

[arthur_lame_stocks] 29/3/2010 18:13

Be nice if one or two of the small cap tip sheets pick up on this. Hopefully since the company have bought in so much of the stock there won't be a lot around to stop the price from rising again from here if we get some buyers.

OK I know it pure fantasy, but you've got to cling to something.

[ansc] 29/3/2010 08:01

Well, the Money Makers are sniffing a kill - share price up 1p before the opening! No doubt the spread will increase 25% as well!!

[deswalker] 10/3/2010 08:37

With the exception of the pension situation things certainly seem to be looking up at DWSN judging by today's Prelims. They echo what PG said at the LDSG AGM and the DWSN team are clearly motivated and making real progress. The next two jobs are to finally unwind Dorma by half way through the year and also to make some progress on the Pensions side following the new triennial valuation currently being prepared.

[jonak] 03/3/2010 23:57

another 2.3 million to go

[ansc] 18/2/2010 20:28

I wouldn't disagree with your argument, Des, if it wasn't for the fact that I could have bought 2.5k online at the said 14p. If 2.5k why not 20k?

[deswalker] 18/2/2010 14:57

ansc,

Whilst not disagreeing with your last comment at all, I'm not surprised that you didn't get anywhere at 14p. The company is at that level for as many as they can get and they are paying SP's fees as corporate broker. share price are never going to put you at the front of the queue if you're only bidding at the same level as their client, and if you bid that level through another mm then you're not going to get filled as any seller knows to go straight to share price for as many as they want without splitting the order.

Now if you'd bid 14.25p then you should rightly be annoyed if the company is then filled at 14p before you. If that had happened then questions should be asked, irrespective of the sizes of the orders and the client realtionships. But not when you're only bidding at the same level IMO.

Des

[ansc] 18/2/2010 12:41

On Monday, I tried to buy 20k @ 14p and was promptly told by my broker 'no can do' yet two days later the company manages to buy 240k at the same price of 14p.

Exasperating! Level playing field, you must be joking!!

[arthur_lame_stocks] 17/2/2010 22:18

Yeah we're getting there slowly but surely.

[deswalker] 17/2/2010 16:54

Buyback. 240k at 14p.

[deswalker] 09/2/2010 17:24

Buyback. 50k at 14p.

[the diviner] 04/2/2010 13:30

Thanks for the useful write up Des.

I am glad that I am down to just 20,000 of these and in some ways I am sorry that I did not just sell the lot. (2009 was a good year for most other shares so I made back the LDSG loses on others that did not have the PG affect).

If LDSG paid a dividend we would at least have some incentive to stay.

Regards,
TD

[bracke] 04/2/2010 10:45

Sounds more like a wake than an AGM.

[bracke] 04/2/2010 09:50

DesWalker

Many thanks for your report.

I was somewhat surprised there were only three shareholders in attendance. How many packets of biscuits did you come away with?

[jonak] 03/2/2010 21:09

Yes, thanks Des, great that you went, and many thanks for distributing your write up .

[arthur_lame_stocks] 03/2/2010 19:35

Thanks Des, very helpful.

[ansc] 03/2/2010 19:21

Thanks Des, a thorough resume covering all the relevant points. As you say, it looks as though we're in for the long haul!

Could they afford tea and biscuits afterwards?

[deswalker] 03/2/2010 17:09

AGM report ...

In attendance: EW, PG, Malcolm Wilson, one lawyer, one auditor, two from SP, three shareholders incl me (the other two were a couple). No JC as he is recovering from a knee operation and needs to rest.

Following all the formalities we got to the questions from shareholders. The couple went first then me. The answers ...

Hemmers

They are finally getting to terms with margins and working capital needs. Following the expansion of the business they didn't get the sales they expected (due to credit crunch) and hence operating margins suffered.

They were also concerned about the working capital usage of the business and were keeping the cash on deposit in the parent just in case there was a problem at Hemmers as they are required to renew their banking facilities annually and the credit crunch might just have made this a problem.

They are very impressed with Jorg Hemmers and finally at his behest they decided to get rid of the Finance Director who wasn't managing the finances well enough. They now have a replacement and hence the improvement in trading. Jorg Hemmers is in his mid forties and is incredibly motivated but needs to get some better people round him and this has now started.

DWSN

They are very happy with the operational side of the business especially the US cashmere business. The own-label bed linen business continues to disappoint. They were sanguine about selling the yarns business but it has gone so fair enough.

They are pleased with the new non-exec (Ghione) who has lots of contacts and experience.

They were instrumental in getting rid of the previous Chairman and the reason for this has come to light. They didn't say so but reading between the lines they feel that they were given duff information about the pension fund situation before buying the 30% (agreements supposed to be in place which weren't) and hence were not happy about him continuing as a result.

The pension remains a problem but they say that the DWSN management are working flat out on all parts of the business incl the deficit and so they appear to be very happy with the current DWSN team.

They don't know who the new 8% holder is and are surprised that he didn't take Guiness Peat out entirely.

I asked why we didn't buy the full 15% at 1.5p and make an offer if we're so happy with things. After all we would then own 45% at 1.5p which gives some leeway for bidding for the rest.

PG said that they have been cautious about retaining cash in case Hemmers needed it and also if they acquire over 35% of DWSN then the UK pension regulator can start throwing its weight around. For these two reasons they decided to stick at 30% even though they see great potential for the cashmere businesses. He said that hypothetically if these two issues hadn't been on the table then they would have certainly considered a takeover.

Yeadon Banks

Court hearing is in March. There are two cases being heard at the same time, one being defended by the Council (altho they are only defending their old decision based on existing evidence and not against any new evidence which LDSG might bring) and the other is not being defended at all because the locals can't get the money together to defend. This is the reason for the delay as LDSG have given loads of time to the locals to decide what they want to do and don't want to be portrayed as a bully. Apathy has set in amongst the residents it appears. Apparently there was one ringleader a few years back who got others involved but this time he has been quiet so they don't know if he's moved away or something.

LDSG are bringing new evidence based upon semantics surrounding the definition of "neighbourhood" within village green law although they are the first to admit that there isn't reems of case law either way on this.

On balance it appears that the defence has weakened somewhat but also that the new evidence isn't anywhere near the slamdunk legal precedent that I thought was the case following comments at last year's AGM.

They see the 50k spent as option money. The rewards are so great that it is well worth the risk but there are absolutely no guarantees.

EET

I made the point about the sale of EET in May whilst Scribona was buying. EW said that the decision to purchase more EET at the same time as Scribona taking control was made by him and Malcolm Wilson and that PG and JC weren't involved. He also said that they were not involved in the decision to sell the entire stake in May (EW and MW again made the decision). He got legal advice about this and told me afterwards that for the sake of his own professional credibility he was extremely keen to make sure that he was going by the book and not aiding in some sort of asset transfer. I believe him.

I said I understood that he sold the shares on the market but I said that at that time there was clearly only one buyer (Scribona) and hence it was almost like selling to them direct. He said that this was probably true but he re-emphasised that it was a decision made independently of JC and PG.

I said that hopefully we'll stick to our area of expertise in future (whatever that means).

Conclusion

I hope I'm not being too gullible but I quite like EW and PG and think they are playing a straight bat. They are pleasant and chatty and don't take offence at some straight talking.

Still I don't know when (if ever) we're going to see value outed. Both Hemmers and DWSN are definitely making real operational progress and we will have a decision on the land before too long. But I have no idea when or if this will ever be reflected in the share price whilst the market frets about the intentions of the main two shareholders.

Rgds,

Des

[arthur_lame_stocks] 01/2/2010 21:15

I wouldn't if I were you.