Kin Share Discussion Threads

[mr ashley james] 24/7/2002 10:04

Ursus,

KIN up 2p today!

Not a bad performance IMHO

Cheers

Ash

[mr ashley james] 08/7/2002 15:27

Ursus,

I can not fight a bear market, where more or less nothing is going up.

I also originally miss read Eliott Wave sequence, WUN has only just completed an ABC test of bottom.

I did spot WUN at 46p though, so I am happy, and still making a good profit.

Well done on KIN.

Best regards

Ashley

[ursus] 08/7/2002 15:08

ash = despite the fact that you have been wrong in just about every predictionn you have made for WUN over the last few weeks/months (and there has been a huge number of them), i too hope you are right and that WUN goes up! i still hold most of the last lots i bought, having sold only a few in the upper 80s.

[mr ashley james] 08/7/2002 15:01

Ursus,

Indeed KIN have performed well recently, but it is AML/WUN starting to move now IMHO.

Best regards

Ashley

[ursus] 08/7/2002 14:32

brit annouced today that they disposed of 13m shares on 3/7. about half of these were taken up by amvescap. today another trade of 1.7m shares has gone through - my guess is that this may be brit getting rid of some more, so that now they only hold 800k.

the strength of this share in a bad market plus the departure (almost) of the weak holder brit without causing any damage to the share price should cause you to think this might not be such a bad spot for your cash - but dyor!

[mr ashley james] 04/7/2002 11:16

Ursus,

Up another 1.50p, what is occurring?

Best regards

Ashley

[ursus] 04/7/2002 10:58

still the nice steady upward drift -- surely you'll have to dyor now!

[mr ashley james] 03/7/2002 16:35

Financial Ruin,

Bloody Hell KILN PLC up 2p or 3.50% on massive volume, in this market, what is going on?

Best regards

Ashley

[ursus] 03/7/2002 08:51

not true story - usual urban myth.

oh - and by the way - someone will soon notice how well this share is doing since the rights were fully paid. will berkeley be interested in buying a majority stake soon? you could buy a ticket and find out. or you could dyor

[financialruin] 18/6/2002 09:53

A seemingly true story for all those interested in the insurance sector.

See:

[ursus] 18/6/2002 08:32

good take up of the rights issue....

[recruiter] 28/5/2002 15:55

quite right King Rat. Now that's what I call a faux pas, how the hell did they get the original figure & the original story.
Gotta laugh.

[king rat] 27/5/2002 16:32

Regarding post 31, this "information" was published in the Insurance Times. They have now published a correction confirming that Kiln's exposure is only $250k net.

[ursus] 27/5/2002 11:44

the egm is today, and i suspect that this share may tick up after the inevitable result is announced - it was quietly strong last week. tho' i am doubtful about the wisdom of a rights issue at the bottom of the share price range, i suspect the big holders welcome it because it makes the prospect of their exit more real -- berkeley will now have 20% of th company and may be looking for an agreed takeover, for all i know.

[recruiter] 17/5/2002 10:16

wouldn't touch Kiln with a bargepole right now.
In a do or die lawsuit in the US re - 176 AON workers killed (Sept 11th). This could cost them £48m, makt cap under £60m, this would see the end of Kiln IF it were successful.
Although outcome of suit may favour Kiln (another suit favoured insurer) it still may damage Kiln short term.

Recs

[backwardation] 07/5/2002 16:07

RNS Number:5735V
Kiln PLC
7 May 2002


Kiln plc


Notification of Interest


Kiln plc advises that it was notified on 3 May 2002 by Brit Insurance Holdings
PLC ('Brit') that Brit is interested in a total of 15,170,098 shares in Kiln plc
pursuant to section 203 of the Companies Act 1985, as follows:-



• Brit holds 13,666,339 shares



• The Equity Partnership Investment Company Plc ('EPIC') holds 1,503,759
shares and Brit is entitled to exercise or control the exercise of one third or
more of the voting power at general meetings of EPIC.



7 May 2002


Enquiries:

Kiln plc Tel: [phone]
Edward Creasy, Chief Executive
Roy Butler, Finance Director

College Hill Tel: [phone]
James Henderson
Peter Rigby





This information is provided by RNS
The company news service from the London Stock Exchange

[mr ashley james] 07/5/2002 16:02

RNS Number:5735V
Kiln PLC
7 May 2002


Kiln plc


Notification of Interest


Kiln plc advises that it was notified on 3 May 2002 by Brit Insurance Holdings
PLC ('Brit') that Brit is interested in a total of 15,170,098 shares in Kiln plc
pursuant to section 203 of the Companies Act 1985, as follows:-



• Brit holds 13,666,339 shares



• The Equity Partnership Investment Company Plc ('EPIC') holds 1,503,759
shares and Brit is entitled to exercise or control the exercise of one third or
more of the voting power at general meetings of EPIC.



7 May 2002


Enquiries:

Kiln plc Tel: [phone]
Edward Creasy, Chief Executive
Roy Butler, Finance Director

College Hill Tel: [phone]
James Henderson
Peter Rigby

[mr ashley james] 25/4/2002 10:25

Extract from latest set of two press Releases from Kiln Plc including WR Berkeley Investment in the Company:-




RNS Number:0562V
Kiln PLC
25 April 2002

For publication in the United Kingdom only. Not for release, publication or
distribution into any other jurisdiction including the United States, Canada,
Japan, Australia or Republic of Ireland.





KILN PLC

Kiln to raise £47.6 million





Kiln today announces that it is to raise approximately £47.6 million (before
expenses) by means of a Rights Issue and a Subscription:



• The Rights Issue of approximately 68.4 million New Ordinary Shares at
47p per share is being made to Kiln Shareholders on the basis of 2 Issue Shares
for every 3 Existing Ordinary Shares. The Rights Issue has been underwritten by
Collins Stewart other than in respect of approximately 3.5 million Issue Shares
in respect of which irrevocable undertakings have been obtained to subscribe
under the Rights Issue





• W. R. Berkley Corporation, through its subsidiary Berkley Insurance
Company, has conditionally agreed to subscribe for approximately 32.8 million
New Ordinary Shares at 47p per share in the Subscription, and has irrevocably
undertaken to take up its rights in full to subscribe for approximately 3.3
million New Ordinary Shares under the Rights Issue. Assuming both the Rights
Issue and the Subscription proceed, Berkley Insurance Company will own 20.1 per
cent. of the Company's enlarged issued share capital



• The Issue Price of 47p per share under the Rights Issue and the
Subscription represents a 13.8 per cent. discount to the closing middle market
price of 54.5p per Ordinary Share on 24 April 2002, the last business day before
this announcement



• The greater part of the proceeds will be used to acquire and support the
increased underwriting participation by Kiln Underwriting on Syndicate 510 and
so allow Kiln to take better advantage of the opportunities available in its
specialist areas of business



• Kiln is furthering its strategic relationship with W. R. Berkley
Corporation. Berkley Insurance Company will, following completion of the Rights
Issue and the Subscription, become the largest shareholder in Kiln and will have
the right, subject to the terms of an agreement between Kiln and Berkley
Insurance Company, to appoint up to two directors to the Kiln board



• The Rights Issue will be, and the Subscription is, conditional upon,
inter alia, shareholder approval at an Extraordinary General Meeting which it is
anticipated will be held on 27 May 2002. The Subscription is also conditional
on Regulatory Consent being obtained by 19 July 2002. The Rights Issue will not
be conditional on the Subscription Agreement becoming unconditional



• It is anticipated that the Circular containing the terms of the Rights
Issue and the Subscription will be dispatched to shareholders on or about 3 May
2002



• Kiln has also issued a separate announcement today containing its
audited preliminary results for the year ended 31 December 2001.



Edward Creasy, Chief Executive of Kiln, said:



"The Rights Issue and Subscription are an important development for Kiln and
allow us to take advantage of greatly improved trading conditions which play to
the strengths of Kiln's team of high calibre underwriters. We are now able to
deliver much improved economic benefits to our shareholders. We are also very
pleased with the commitment of W. R. Berkley Corporation to our capital raising
and look forward to developing a mutually beneficial relationship with one of
the US's leading commercial insurers"



William Berkley, Chairman and Chief Executive of W. R. Berkley Corporation,
said:



"We are enthusiastic about our expanding relationship with Kiln plc. Kiln has
an outstanding team of people with enormous expertise and experience in the
Lloyd's market. We believe that this relationship will allow us to benefit from
their knowledge of the London marketplace"





Enquiries:



Kiln plc Tel: [phone]
Edward Creasy, Chief Executive
Roy Butler, Finance Director



College Hill Tel: [phone]
James Henderson



Collins Stewart Limited Tel: [phone]
Simon Atkinson



Lexicon Partners Limited Tel: [phone]
Angus Winther

[mr ashley james] 23/4/2002 00:03

King Rat,

I thought you were going to move your cash over from WUN into KIN, you are indeed predictable.

There ahead as ever!

Cheers and LOL

Ash

[paddyfool] 22/4/2002 11:18

Current price 53p results due shortly talk of an offer at 47p. Does this mean that they are confident that the results will not have a negative impact on price....answers on a postcard!

[king rat] 15/4/2002 19:28

ursus,

I'll try and pick up the valuation model issue tomorrow, on energyi's insurance thread.

Regards.

King Rat

[ursus] 15/4/2002 18:04

i've copied this from an earlier post on WUN, because it belongs here morte than there, and in the hope that this relatively neglected lloyds co might now get some interest as well as WUN!

i still think on valuation and earnings grounds that kiln, which has not put a foot wrong since 11/9, is the best, but i guess they are held back by the brit shareholding being on offer with no takers as yet.

ratty -- you said that you were keen to do some valuation models for these stocks some time ago. any progress? i feel it will soon be time to move away from the NTAV approach, which looks at them like investment trusts (and losing ones at that over past few years) and to move to an earnings based valuation. can we argue this through? for kiln, eg, there are 3/4 potential earnings streams - result on wholly owned capacity; result on capacity supported by QS; managing agency profit and investment profit. i don't know how to value the QS capacity element, but have done my est's for the others and a guess on QS, and reckon that with a return on capacity of 10%, kiln will have a p/e for this yr of c3. not bad!

[ursus] 15/4/2002 18:04

delete duplicate

[king rat] 21/2/2002 13:27

Ursus,

I haven't heard anything specific on Kiln, but it has performed worse than the sector recently, so I'd be worried about the possibility that someone else has.

I halved my BRiT holding a couple of weeks ago and won't be buying anything in the sector until the particular share's year-end position is in the public domain. Recent experience of Cox, Wellington and SVB (the three former sector darlings) demonstrates, I think, that the downside at the moment far outweighs the upside.

Regards.

King Rat