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| Share Name | Share Symbol | Market | Type | Share ISIN | Share Description |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Intrinsic Val. | LSE:IV. | London | Ordinary Share | GB0007449555 | ORD 1P |
| Price Change | % Change | Share Price | Shares Traded | Last Trade
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|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0.00 | 0.00% | 0.00 | - |
| Bid Price | Offer Price | High Price | Low Price | Open Price | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Industry Sector | Turnover | Profit | EPS - Basic | PE Ratio | Market Cap |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| - |
| Last Trade Time | Trade Type | Trade Size | Trade Price | Currency |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| - | 0 | GBX |
Intrinsic Val. (IV.) Share Charts1 Year Intrinsic Val. Chart |
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1 Month Intrinsic Val. Chart |
Intraday Intrinsic Val. Chart |
| Trade Time | Trade Price | Trade Size | Trade Value | Trade Type |
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| Top Posts |
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Posted at 30/9/2014 22:02 by sigala Hi Tlatsatt,thanks for the link - very interesting. Brands definitely form part if not all of a company's intrinsic value don't they? It's quite interesting to think about what industries can support strong brands and what industries can't. WB realised that Berkshire Hathaway had no chance to establish a brand in their field. They were supplying the liner material for suits. But no one ever asked for a suit with a Berkshire Hathaway lining. So their customers would pay the minimum price or go to one of their competitiors. I guess petrol would be another brand weak industry. I never think I'm going to buy petrol from a Shell garage. Petrol is petrol, I just want to pay as little as possible for it. Bubble wrap would be another brandless industry. Companies in these industries can't get prices much above the cost of production. I was at Tescos the other day and was looking at prices of baked beans. Heinz was on offer at 4 for £2.50p. Own brand economy beans were 4 for £1. I bet Heinzs cost of production is no higher because of their scale. So their beans would be profitable at £1 - therefore the extra £1.50p is definitely profit. And if we ever doubt the power of brands, then just look at how even Michael O Leary is changing his tune: |
Posted at 29/9/2014 21:34 by thelongandtheshortandthetall Hi SigalaI thought I would share this here as I imagine it might be of interest to you from a WB view point. Its a list of super brands. You can read about how the lists are formulated via links at the bottom. kind regards |
Posted at 18/7/2014 22:51 by thelongandtheshortandthetall Hi SigalaSorry for slow reply. I hope you're keeping well. I bet you are. I bet practicing Buddhism is pretty good for your health and well being. Just the orange robes I'm not too sure about. hehe Funny you should use the saying 'you reap what you sow' this is one of my favourites and can be used to describe so many aspects of life. I think its a biblical one. Something about planting mustard seads to grow mustard. I read it once and it stuck with me and was a great lesson. To few people appreciate that if you go around frowning all day all you get is a head ache. But if you smile all day its amazing how many people smile back and then open up a bit and share things with you that generally gives you more to smile about. From an investment point of view it pretty apt too! The snowball is a good read. I must admit I was far more interested in the first half than the second. As each mega deal kind of blended into one another. Perhaps its my limited focus thing again but once you get to billions and zillions it all becomes a bit blury. I bet though that at the center of these mega deals there are a few personalities and all the same attributes of the pinball busines, golf ball sales and paper routes just a quite a few less digits involved. Buffett was quite an operator at a young age. For someone that claims to of been so shy he sure managed to rope a couple other boys into his schemes. They usually did most of the ugly work too. This is a skill that certainly has paid dividends for him as time goes on. I am truely amazed at Buffets ability to deligate. I struggle with this myself even on a tiny scale. I think when WB says he is wired for capital allocation he is totally right. 'The fact that WB has not neglected his humanity has actually made him a more effective businessman and investor IMO. By living in a good way he experiences a calmer mind than if he was cheating people or riding roughshod over them. A clear mind is the most useful thing in investment I would say.' This also works best in the long term. I think Buffett worked this out completly after the dempsy mill affair that put lots of people out of work and didnt make him many friends in that area. I certainly dont think Buffett set out for things to end the way they did. But what is certain he never did it again. Even as Berkshire Hathaway was to WB a failing business he and munger continued to keep it open but slowly shut it down so they didnt throw aged staff out that wouldnt be able to rerain in another trade. This is commendable I think. I would say that self deprecating humour (WB often makes fun of himself) actually belies a human trait that elludes most. This trait enables him to except a losing posisition and hold on when others just wouldnt be able to take getting it wrong and then sell out before they have a chance of being proved right. Being able to take the pain of looking foolish from time to time will help in the long run of investing IMO. For fun. On the total flipside. Imagine if WB was a badman and craved power. With his skills he would probably be king of the whole planet by now. Perhaps that is his plan lol. learning about investing and Buffett will definitely pay double dividends for us. Cheers |
Posted at 14/6/2014 19:07 by sigala Hi tlatsatt,that is all excellent info - extremely useful because it is from your direct experience. Your summary makes a lot of interesting points - HWDN's sounds like they've cornered a good niche. I think I will make HWDN's my next share to research, so I will try to offer what I can when I've had a good Look over them. Your summary of HWDN's is all about their business - and that's what really matters in WB type investment. Understand the business and why they are strong. That tells us much more about their prospects than anything else. I guess the question will also be if HWDN represent value at the current price.....again I'll try to look into it. Thanks for the contribution tlatsatt. Enjoy your night out, and yes......come on England!! I just hope our boys were watching Holland last night - a start like that would do nicely!! cheers |
Posted at 14/6/2014 12:12 by thelongandtheshortandthetall Ive just relised.The funny thing is that I continue to hold BLVN because of PFCs future involvement in their projects. If memory serves PFC will be stumping up £500million to assist BLVNs operations. I'll be very happy if PFC just take BLVN over to be honest. Good luck all. $500m not £s Petrofac website - dated 6/11/12 'Subject to an agreed FDP and satisfaction of certain other conditions, including co-venturer and government approvals, the strategic alliance's risk service arrangements envisage that Petrofac will subsequently execute the planned development through the provision of project management, engineering, procurement and construction services, and will invest up to US$500 million as part of Bowleven's financial commitment to develop the asset. Petrofac's investment would be remunerated through a share of Bowleven's production revenue'. |
Posted at 13/6/2014 19:43 by sigala hi tlatsatt and Piedro,interesting discussion. I can't offer much more on HWDN than what you have discussed. Its not a share I have done detailed research into as yet. Maybe I will try to have a closer look. Tlatsatt, I certainly will pass the message on if I have a "lightbulb" moment as you put it, lol! Actually what I am finding as I keep studying WB is that it is a series of lightbulb moments. It's a case of gradually letting the various points sink in. Whether there will be a huge lightbulb moment at the end I'm not sure! It feels like a process of getting closer and closer to WB's view. Its a bit like that game we used to play as kids where someone would hide something and then say either hot or cold depending on whether you were getting closer or further away. I keep trying to go where it is warmer. Even getting part of the way towards WB's understanding is useful I find. It's not like we have to perfect everything before it is useful to us. What you are writing about ROE and things like the earnings that come from reinvestment already suggests to me that you are thinking along broadly Buffett lines. Maybe with WB's method it is a bit like peeling back the layers of an onion, gradually we are peeling them back one by one. I know there are other investment strategies available to study (Joel Greenblatt Ben Graham, ZULU - to name just a few), and maybe I will study them in detail someday. But WB's approach seems to resonate with me, and his results certainly suggest it is powerful when you master it. I'm keen to keep studying it until I feel I understand it as much as I can. I'm not there yet - needless to say! I quite like challenges, and at the moment figuring out what WB looks for in his investments is giving me a good brain workout! Hopefully my PF will feel the benefit in the years to come! regards |
Posted at 13/6/2014 16:23 by piedro Re: HWDN1.- the charts look good in recent years... [charts from Sharescope] 2.- mathematics YEAR.......EPS (normal) 2003.... 12.23p 2008.... 09.00p 2013.... 16.12p CAGR-10yr = 02.8% ... not much of a lt growth share CAGR-05yr = 12.5% ... perhaps have started a new trend If I buy at 300p Return on capital = 16.12 x 100 รท 300 = 5.37% pa + 12.5% (if lucky) Share price estimates 2014 = 300.00 x 5.37% + 12.5% = 300.00 + 16.11 + 02.11 = 318.22p 2015 = 318.22 x 5.37% + 12.5% = 318.22 + 17.09 + 02.14 = 337.45p etc ... In conclusion ... As with most LSE shares there is no long term history of growth thus the risk My immediate ROC would be 5.37% which is v. poor - ie the share is expensive Buying at 150p would give me an immediate return of 10.75% + plus the yearly CAGR and that's possibly worth the risk and worth researching the company That's why I mentioned PFC Buying now I can still get an 8.9% ROC + a CAGR of 20-30% annual. AIMHO, BWDIK |
Posted at 09/6/2014 22:18 by sigala Just to put a bit more detail on intrinsic value.....Think about WB's company See's Candies. This company sells high quality chocolates - luxury chocolates really. They have a very high reputation for quality and people are prepared to pay a high price for their chocolates. They are seen as a special occasion type purchase where people are not bothered about price. The profit margin at See's Candies is very strong because of the premium price they can command. The company requires very low levels of capex investment each year, so almost all the profit each year is free to be removed from the business and distributed to the owner. See's have a strong record of growing their profits year after year. They are able to increase prices without harming sales growth. Most of See's sales are for cash with the stock made freshly so little is stored. So they have great cash generation and very low working capital requirements So See's is a wonderful business to own. WB's experience of owning it must feel like owning a fountain that showers money rather than water. Year after year See's distributes almost all its annual profit to him and yet the business keeps growing its sales and profits year after year. Its a cash machine for him. |
Posted at 08/6/2014 19:59 by sigala If memory serves, I think WB is not at all keen on long term government bonds (say 30 year notes) because their yield is not high enough even to counteract the effects of inflation. It's surprising, but when he crunched the numbers on them he saw that by holding them for the full term his investment would be down in real terms.Needless to say this is not a good investment result at all. Inflation is always there trying to eat away at our capital, so even an investment that compounds at 2 or 3 % p.a is only standing still in real terms (assuming inflation stays in that range). Setting a higher goal for ourselves, then we should look at the long term returns of a basic tracker fund. Its said that the total share holder return of the S&P is 11% p.a. over the long term. Again, if our investing activity cannot exceed the return we would get from a tracker fund, then logically we should just invest in the tracker and save ourselves all the bother of researching shares. So, our investing activity needs to start making decent returns if there is to be any point to it, financially. Of course there are other reasons people invest in the stock market, for the interest value, as a hobby etc. And there's nothing wrong worth that if they have the cash to spare. But if our investing activity is going to make sense from a financial point of view then we need to get to a point where we are at the least beating the long term performance of a low cost tracker fund, I would say. regards |
Posted at 08/6/2014 18:10 by sigala Hi tlatsatt + eeza,good to hear from you - thanks for dropping by! Yes, I named the thread "Intrinsic Value" as this seems to be the concept that is right at the heart of Buffett's investing approach. I think it is a fairly simple idea in principle, but it is difficult to measure in practice. It seems to me that what WB is getting at is that a business has a real or intrinsic value, but the market valuation may differ wildly from that true intrinsic value. For example, the intrinsic value of Berkshire Hathaway was much less than the $19 per share WB bought it for, because it was a struggling business in a dying industry (unfortunately for WB he hadn't grasped that when he bought it). On the other hand the price he paid for the Washington Post was way below it's intrinsic value as became apparent with the earnings it has repaid him with. Weighing up a company's intrinsic value seems to be basically what investment comes down to, when all's said and done. It's the holy grail really. If we can find a reliable way to at least get a ball park figure for Intrinsic Value then we have something to compare against the market price we are being offered. WB says that it's not possible to measure intrinsic value precisely, but it is possible to see when the market valuation is way off. I'll try to write a bit more later |
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