International Real Estate Share Discussion Threads

[gelp] 26/11/2003 01:11

Directors own some 60% but Butler Finance Ltd owns 7.25%. (hemscot) I can find no information anywhere on Butler Finance Ltd.Any one know `em?
The 60% is largely in Chairman`s hands. Would be nice to see some other director buying at these levels or even a share buy back . But, As skyships says may be legal reasons or a genuine unwillingness to take more out of the publics hands.Would be nice to have a statement to reassure the investors as to long term commitment to the market.
The drop seems related to a few fairly small sales.
Poison Pills are not popular in the UK.
By the way where does Oaktree have it`s nerve centre? Who is pulling the strings? The net result of the uncertainty is certainly a depression of the price.
The last time uncertainty was removed was 160p.
Directors state legal advice is `no material affect (or similar), no provision.
If that changes they must tell everyone.
Assets still high as mentioned.
Very interesting till may 4th latest!

[skyship] 25/11/2003 16:35

The original "Agreement" stated E.12m, ie £8.5m + an annual interest accrual of 25%. That rate is of itself a flag to the suspicious circumstances of the original "Agreement". It is amazing that Oaktree haven't walked away from this, but that may yet be the outcome before they risk exposure in court.

[jakex] 25/11/2003 14:07

How much will IRE lose if they lose court case?

[skyship] 25/11/2003 11:49

This week has provided a touch of deja-vu. Almost two years ago Criterion Properties (as they then were) had a sell-off as a seller dumped stock onto wholly unresponsive market-makers. The new MD at the time bought some stock on that fall:



as did I very soon after - at 97p according to the contract note.

Soon after Criterion became one of my best performing stocks that year as the price motored ahead as high as 160p, partially on the announcement of Justice Hart’s decision regarding the spurious Oaktree claim saga.

Well, this week we saw the same happen again, though on this occasion perhaps the legal processes prevent the directors adding further to their share stakes – I don’t really know on that score.

What is likely however is that word will get around that the current Mkt Cap of £5.7m compares with a taxed NAV of £17.7m!! Accordingly we are likely to see a recovery back to the 100p level, where the stock might have to await further developments. With the hearing not until May’04 (& judgement sometime thereafter), it could be a boring 6 months, but more than likely a highly profitable one yet again. Certainly @ 80p IRE are a BUY regardless of the legal outcome.

[gelp] 24/11/2003 09:51

If court win surely strong upside?

[jakex] 20/11/2003 14:16

This stock is a punt on the court case results we will not win either way!

[gelp] 06/11/2003 18:51

Court action May 2004. long time to wait!

[gelp] 16/9/2003 14:31

Interims -still no more news of court case except directors continue to believe no need for any provisions.
Not sure if borrowings are in still pounds or euro - any one know that? I find things a little confusing with Euro and pounds! if still in pounds there must be a benefit there somewhere.
Assetts still pretty substantial & Euro cash on hand!

[gelp] 06/8/2003 12:49

Thanks for sticking your neck out! If justice prevails you should be correct. MBO? v.interesting. There was some sug. of buy back of shares some time ago.

[skyship] 05/8/2003 15:04

Win - followed by a MBO. Court date still not yet known - will be posted on the co. website when date confirmed: ireplc.com

[gelp] 04/8/2003 10:22

3 possibilities
win, settle or lose. what`s your guess?

[ttjohnson] 01/8/2003 15:54

Still watching - on the monitor all the time. Its had a very steady decline, but dare not get in until litigation is sorted.

[gelp] 16/7/2003 21:29

I,m still watching as well.

[simonevans] 17/5/2003 09:33

Still watching - great company, but until the litigation is out of the way I will watch on the sidelines. The concern is how the contingent liability increases by approx 25% a year - scary stuff. The director that signed this one off, apparently fraudulently, should be prosecuted.

[gelp] 16/5/2003 21:17

Is any one there?
Interesting as assetts are in Euroland and there has been appreciation against the £. Any news any one ?

[gelp] 27/2/2003 21:00

Any idea on time scale or progress of litigation?

[jakex] 07/1/2003 13:16

the problem with IRE is that they were to clever by half and got involved with the yanks now they are getting their punishment. The whistle blower who knew Glaser was a crook a Nicolas Fuselli the then company secretary was paid of some 5 years ago

[gelp] 20/12/2002 09:30

I am extremely sympathetic to the Chairman.
The original judgement was in Companies favour.
The protaginist only has leave to appeal - that does not change the validity of his case only that he has been allowed at great expense to appeal his lost cause. That is his perogative.
I hope the Chairman keeps his nerve. My guess is he will.
Incredibly well run company.
I attended AGM (I like to see the whites of the eyes!) and felt relaxed afterwards.
I would want a lot of persuading that a settlement is the right way after winning the case in the first place. How many judgements of this nature are overturned on appeal? How many reach the doors of the court?
If we knew those answers it would help with a forcast of the outcome. My guess is very few in both catagories.

[simonevans] 18/12/2002 18:42

Not good news today. Looks like at least a year of massive uncertainty unless a deal can be done out of court. Any views?

[gelp] 09/12/2002 08:38

Does anyone have any feeling as to how the court case went? According to annual report was around 25th of November.

[jakex] 22/8/2002 00:53

wots the latest

[skyship] 21/8/2002 13:06

Interims normally due end September - soon after the CLI Interims, another property company which fits the bill spelt out by Simon above (though only 50% of property portfolio on the Continent)

[simonevans] 01/7/2002 22:18

Great prospects for this co. in my view. Strong property market, strengthening euro, significant discount, only euro property play...the list goes on. Price has been held back by the court case which was all a bit of a fiasco. On balance, upside significantly outweighs the downside risk!

[skyship] 01/7/2002 13:50

An interesting trade in 17/- @ 145p. Any thoughts Gowise?

[skyship] 26/6/2002 16:52

Agreed - bought more at 140p & 136p today. As Criterion Properties, IRE (recent name change) peaked @ 160p before retracing in the shake-out back to today's 136p. At today's level I believe the shares are a BUY again, as they are likely to be underwritten by share buybacks and are at a 42% discount to the NAV (NET of notional tax).

What I particularly like about this stock is the attitude of the management to maximising shareholder return; and the commitment to property on the Continent, where the market is far less well developed, yields are far higher and the Euro is now on an upward trend - so providing a currrency gain as well!

All in all - one to buy into on days such as this